The Ultimate Strip Club List Articles

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Aug 2009
Jul '17
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July 14, 2017
25
6 Hours Ago
This started out as a club review or possible comment. But when I finished, based on the length and the way it took shape I thought it was better suited as an article. There are shades of the "system" I use. But it's more of a field report. I hope you guys enjoy.

I was out last night, I had a couple of thoughts about what was going on in the club , and how thanks to the wisdom of this site, I managed to turn around what probably would have been a shitty high hustle night.

For some background, I'm a little more unusual for the monger crowd. I hit my first club right when I turned 18 and have gone 1-3xs a year since 18. I've been going to clubs on every rung of the career ladder. From starving college student, to bottom rung of the company, to I make enough to splurge at a strip club. The funny thing is that, because i've been on this site for so long, and starting clubbing when I had to scrounge $80 to go, it has made me much more savy and less prone to SS. And it's also resulted in me rarely spending more than $150.

Because I was off today. I decided to hit up a local strip club last night. I figure it's the Monday before a holiday, so there probably won't be a ton of customers, but there might be more dancers. My goal is always to find that sweet spot of when there are enough customers that the girls have to dance, but there are still more girls than customer. Obviously I'm going to miss out on the higher end girls, but I don't have John Smith money (I will in about 15 years). And i've also noticed that if there are 7-10 girls, after 30 minutes, my brain will make 1-2 of them hot enough to spend money on. If not, oh well I just leave.

So this next part is where my TUSCL and years of dealing with strippers came in handy. My budget for the night was $160, I left another $140 in the car, just in case. But with $160- that's enough for cover, drinking and stage tipping, with well over $120 for lap dances (Depending on the area). I don't like to carry more than that into a club for negotiation purposes. Strippers love to quote bullshit prices. But if they look and see you have some kind of money, and the options are coming down from that stupid high price she quoted you and nothing, they tend to come down, especially if they know you're not bullshitting. These is also part of why I like going at slow times. A stripper is far less likely to stick to that price point if she's been at work 5 hours and has $11 in stage tips and sold no dances. It just takes a little patience.

So when I got to my club at around 10. 8-10 girls on shift. Not a ton of customers. Just like I like it. But there are a few girls sitting with customers and a few who are just off to themselves. I order my beer and chill.

30 minutes in and no girl is moving from her customer. Stage show is whatever, I'm still chilling. I get approached by this tight bodied white girl. Kind of girl who is usually right up my alley. Walks right up to me, good eye contact, rubs my shoulder. Talks for all of 3 minutes before trying to sell me on a dance. 18 year old RedSpartan would have emptied his wallet for her. Decade+ RedSpartan, not so much. She tries leading to me the dance room without quoting me a price....that's interesting tactic, and red flag #1. She then quotes me $45 a dance + $5 to the house....So, this isn't my first time at this club, and I've gotten 2 dances for $55 at this club before. So then I inquire as to discounts for bulk dances. She says she'll do 2 for $75 with $10 to the house, and how that's a great value....yeah I'll pass. I was cordial. But politely declined and told her I was just getting warmed up, but we'd see. I figure, best to be cordial because when she's made no money, and can't make tipout that price was going to come right the hell down.

I was approached by 2 more girls shortly after. The first was a Hispanic girl who's English wasn't all that good, or was just faking it. Walks up to me and asks private dance. I'm already annoyed because she just led into it. But I'm more annoyed because she sat with some dude behind the bar for like 90 minutes who didn't buy any dances. As far as I could tell, he wasn't buying her drinks or paying her for her time (which isn't a thing in my city). As a general rule, I'm not ever going to get a dance from a girl who just hits me with the wanna dance hustle. That rule applies double when she appears to be at the club with a regular, whale, someone they seem to just enjoy being around. I figure the dance is going to be 1/2 assed. I could be wrong, but this has worked for me. But anyway she makes no mention of price and gets visibly upset when I turn her down. She then goes back to the guy she was with who continued to not pay her any money.

Another unattractive girl comes up to me, and again immediately tries to push a dance on me. All the girls here seem to think that selling me on the dance before telling me the price is a good strategy. I'll never understand why any of them do this. If I say yes and can't afford it she still can't get paid. She quotes me $30 a song t $5 to the house. Not terrible, but she's not that attractive, and it's still a little early. She knows whats up, promises me things, and asks what the budget is, and that she'd work with me. The rookie move here is to tell her exactly how much I have and then let her tell me she'd do whatever I wanted for that price. I simply said more than she thought, and said we'd talk after I saw her on stage. She then told me she doesn't go on stage.

I ended up stage tipping $15 between 3 girls. Not because I wanted to. But i had been there an hour and not spent any money besides my beer. So I needed to show this women I had money. I always keep a roll of about $30-40 in ones in my front pocket. I'll pull it out visibly and pull $5 out of it and walk to pervert's row. And tip $5 during 1 song, then retreat back to my seat. I'm not gonna burn money on worthless stage tips. I tip girls I'm interested in, ones who've been nice, but that I have no interest in getting a dance from, and anyone putting on extra effort.

1 got out tipped for 1 of the girls and lost her to that table for an hour+. That table wasn't spending money on her but she sat there. So I wrote that off as a loss, rather than wait her out to only get a 1/2 ass dance. Another Hispanic girl I tipped said thank you and sat at the bar. I'm still vehemently against ever chasing a stripper because it makes them think they can control you. But I had to get another beer and choose to order next to her. She engages me. Goes in for the dance hustle at about the 3 minute mark...i'm about to roll my eyes and walk off. She quotes her 1st price $35 for 1 song. LOL no. Sensing I'm losing interest she cuts it down to 2 songs for $50 and another $10 to the house. I figure that's probably the best value I'm gonna get, so I go for it. Keep in mind, the first dance I got quoted was 1 for $55 dollars. Dance was great, good 2 way contact, and I still had tons of money left over, due to patience and not being afraid to walk away. (in the back of my head I was also thinking, I could just go to a different club and spend what the first girl offered me and get more dances at a different club).

I come back out happy and satisfied. But not ready to go yet. So I'm still chilling. I notice a bunch of girls on the floor just dry humping dudes for free and paying all kinds of attention to them for no cost. Those same girls all walked up to me and hit me with the wanna dance hustle. Yeah...no. I'm not sure what those other guys have that I don't. I don't care. But if a stripper isn't willing to put that kind of effort to get me to spend on her, I hold on to my dollars.

I'm about to call it a night. But a girl I tipped earlier who had been nice to me sits down. I wasn't super interested but she sat for like 15 minutes. Did a set on stage and went to the dressing room. While she was in the dressing room, they announced a dance special. They didn't name a single price or what it was. So I guess it allows the dancers to set their own bullshit prices. My girl came back from the dressing room. She had been running that new girl hustle on me. So I decided to push it. I got her to offer me 2 dances for $30 + room fee. She could have been new, but her conduct in the room indicates to me that he wasn't. When we're at the end of the 2nd dance, i get her to agree to a 3rd dance for $20. Dance was good. Lots of two way contact through all 3. It was a topless dance and she ended up completely naked. So I got 3 dances for $50. Remember the first dance I got offered was 1 for $45. After that I called it a night.

This ended up being longer than I thought it was going to be. I'm sure someone can turn this into a system post. But last night felt like a win. I spent under $160 and got 5 lap dances in a place where the dancers set their own prices. I can honestly say that my trip wouldn't have been possible without TUSCL and being able to know what the dance price are. And how to handle stripper shit and spotting ROBs and Whales.

Thanks TUSCL!!
Sep 2013
Jul '17
7
44/3
12/7
42
July 5, 2017
56
July 19, 2017
For those interested in SeekingArrangment, here are my experiences.

I have been lucky enough to find some sex forums with decent sized populations of experienced or wanna-be sugar-daddies, to help fill out and/or confirm some of the perspectives. I joined SA thinking my goal would be to score a classic sugarbaby...

**Executive Summary**: Since this is tuscl, and most of you are executives, I'll start with an executive summary: I've had mixed experiences on SA overall -- for those wondering: yes, for me, OTC is resoundingly still the best experience in the sex industry. But if strip clubs disappeared tomorrow, I'd move onto SA wholesale, no doubt. For all I know, I'm just one awesome SB away from changing my mind completely ... but so far, I have NOT scored a classic SB, mostly because I just couldn't find anyone the interested me enough to engage at this level; I'm also not interested in escort-like interactions, but have indulged in some fun OTC-like meetings that are available on SA. If this entire report is TL;DR, I'd suggest you read just one thing, #5 in the Insights section, at the very bottom of this article.

**The Girls**: I think of the girls of SA in 3 groups, although these groups significantly overlap, and one girl can be in multiple groups at the very same time

Group 1: "Classic" Sugarbabies: they're looking for a sugardaddy/sugarbaby relationship, at levels of support ranging mostly from $1500/month but mostly higher. Sugarbaby tends to imply a bit more engagement in each others' lives: experienced sugardaddies consistently talk about how they're in contact with their SBs over text and phone, help them through life crises, give them business advice, take them on vacations, and overall just how big a part of their lives the SBs are. Some of these girls are very high quality women: white collar women who just need extra help, women on a success track at local universities, smart, interesting, reliable women. Of course, you will also find all kinds of other women: strippers, escort types, flakey hot chicks, etc., all also looking for a sugardaddy.

Group 2: Escort, escort-adjacent, and OTC-like girls: These range from outright escorts who are using SA as an extension of their business, to "sugarbaby light" girls who are okay with per-meeting payment (rather than monthly allowance) but who want to limit interactions to sexual dalliances, to girls whose model is very much like OTC with a stripper, where they're perfectly happy eating and drinking and partying with you for hours before or after the sex. In other words: whatever you're feeling like, you can probably find it on SA

Group 3: Strippers and ex-strippers. There's so many strippers on SA that it's worth calling them out separately. Obviously, they all fit into one or both of the groups above... although sometimes, they'll suggest that for your first meeting, that you meet them at their stripclub. I'll have more comments on them below.

**Pricing**: As part of their profile, the girls all set an "expectation", that ranges from Minimal (less than $1000/month, VERY few of them) and goes up in grades all the way to High (greater than $10,000/month). Don't get too intimidated by that, I've routinely talked girls in the Practical, Moderate, and Substantial (up to $10,000/month) down to OTC-level pricing, $300-$450 per meeting. Most girls will agree to per-meeting payment for the first few times you meet, even the classic sugarbabies who will eventually demand to move to monthly allowance.

In my discussions with very many experienced sugardaddies, most of the ones with multiple successful sugarbaby arrangements are paying in the range of $3500-$5000 per month, if you count allowance *plus* all the other money spent on the sugarbaby (gifts, hotel rooms, travel, food & drink, etc). Here and there I've heard of less, but that $3000+ range seems to be the magic number.

****** What you're here for: Insights and Experiences ********
1. The $3500/month sugardaddies are having a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE than what I"ll describe below ... those of us looking to spend closer to $1500/month, all pretty uniformly (with only rare exceptions) agree with my experiences up and down the line. But the $3500+ club is having a much more fun time of things, and virtually nothing I say below applies to them.

2. Flakiness rules. If you think strippers are flakey, SA brings that to a whole 'nother level. Be ready to deal with a lot of flakiness, although the one mercy is that much of the flakiness happens in the email negotiation leading to the date, which means you've only wasted your online time writing emails. That said, there ARE reliable, civilian women on SA, who are far more reliable than this overall experience, you'll just go through an insane amount of flakiness to find them.

3. No one looks like their pics. Unlike strip clubs, but JUST LIKE escorts, Tinder, Match.com: no one looks like their pics, they've all chosen their very best amazing pics from 5 years ago, took pictures from strategic angles, etc. Just like when meeting an escort or a girl from Tinder for the first time, just expect her to be thicker and less pretty than she looked in that pic, sometimes shockingly so.

4. The girls are annoyed with you. Well, maybe not you personally, but with the men on the site. And not without reason, they've been treated pretty disrespectfully in emails, and so it will pay you back huge dividends if you take a little time learning to write profiles and emails that come across both respectful and confident. This, by the way, may be at least partially responsible for the flake rate, the girls might be reading deeply into everything you write, and bolting at any little thing that bugs them.

5. There are a LOT of strippers and ex-strippers on SA. One of the things I learned: I have an amazing radar for strippers. So far I'm 100% on figuring out when I guess a girl I'm at a meetup with is a stripper or ex-stripper. Going further, nearly all of the best looking women I met on SA are strippers or ex-strippers, and if I further narrow that down to "maximum sum of looks plus fun personality": 100% strippers and ex-strippers. That also led me to another insight: Subraman, I says, if so many hot SA women are strippers, perhaps many active working strippers are on SA. So in the strip club, I've been doing a little experiment: during the conversation, I organically work into the conversation that "I haven't been to the club that often recently because I'm on SA... I really want a sugarbaby to take care of." This has been an unadulterated hit for me. More than half the strippers I've said this to, whipped out their phone and showed me their SA profile, and then we had fun swapping crazy SA stories. 100% of the strippers gave me an "awwwww!" and became VERY interested. In fact, unlike some of you guys, I almost NEVER get propositioned for OTC, I always have to ask and pursue the stripper.... except now, I'm getting strippers hinting or asking outright, "we should meet up, I wanna be a sugarbaby", etc. All in all, at worst it leads to fun conversation, at best it gets the strippers asking ME for OTC (I realize tuscl PLs are seasoned enough not to care much about this, we're all used to asking for OTC, but it IS a little bit of a kick to be the one asked instead of doing the asking). One of my buddies has been so impressed with this that he's planning to set himself up a dummy profile on SA, just to be able to flash it...lol


*** In summary: I've enjoyed the experience and am still indulging, but it has not remotely shaken my preference for strippers, ITC and OTC. And perhaps that's really where I am mentally and emotionally right now: perhaps I am not really ready or interested in having a SB be so much of my life, the way things work with those more experienced high-$$$ sugardaddies I mentioned, much less being interested in laying out that kind of cash. OTC with strippers may just scratch my itch. I'm still looking for a more classic sugarbaby arrangement on SA, but am no closer than when I joined nearly a year ago, and tend to be pulling the trigger on SA meetups when it's more OTCish.
Lapland
Jun 2015
Jul '17
6
0/2
42/24
2
June 14, 2017
16
July 15, 2017
I've done OTC once with my ATF in the past. I don't visit her club in Baltimore (about 60-90 min away) nearly as often as I used to. Generally they've been 4-5 month intervals but we text each other fairly regularly. Finally I had a break and a chance to go up and see her. We usually have it planned out. Our usual MO is that I bring dinner into the club (which doesn't serve food) for her and me, we spend some quality time together nuzzling at one of the tables or at the bar, and then private rooms for 30 min and a few laps for much of the rest of the evening.

Last week, ATF wanted a change of pace. She wanted to have dinner with me before going into the club. We did, at a nice steak restaurant (meeting me at my hotel in a low-key outfit, a long summer dress and flip flops). After, I dropped her off at the club, and then came by later. I did 30 min with her in a private room for the usual fee, we hung out till closing. No overnight was going to happen that night, so no nookie. But ATF asked to meet me for breakfast the next morning out closer to where she lived. We did so (she came in a shorter dress, lower cut, still in flats), and then we spent some time together afterward riding around in my convertible.

This is less your usual OTC story than what essentially amounted to a back-to-back dinner date and then a breakfast date with a very pretty woman (divorced MILF), in which I wound up learning a lot more about my ATF than I expected. I have to admit that in the back of my mind I knew this would eventually happen, given we've known each other for well over two years. I thought I was going to share a little bit of my heritage and my profession with her just to make things interesting and her curious about me. But what happened was suddenly a torrent of information from her. Among those things I learned were her name (showing me her profile as a driver for one of those popular ridesharing services), her family background, what she did before stripping, her vacation with her kids, lots of photos with well-known people, and advice on a career change that would allow her to live a nice normal attractive lifestyle. Just from time spent with my ATF in the past, she tends to avoid too much drinking in the club, and apparently seems to be drug-free (no tattoos, no smoking, generally clearheaded, friendly to waitstaff in restaurants, unfailingly polite, and tends to disdain the cokeheads who danced at or managed her former club).

So part of the deal with engaging a stripper off the stage is always the fantasy - even if it's pure acting, if she's good she makes both Dr. Libido / L'il Roadworrier / whatever-you-wanna-call-it and yourself feel like the center of the sex universe, for however long you have on the sofa or in the VIP room. If you build a rapport she can offer a decent GFE when not "on the clock" (although her current club has dancer drinks which provide a revenue stream on the backs of customers with a small 40% cut for the dancer). And then maybe OTC and horizontal bop happens.

But what happened last week suddenly jolted me, though it took some time to sink in. I suddenly do not think of her as a stripper anymore. I know her name, what her family looks like, her car, what she does when not in the club, and most of all, I'm now getting accustomed to seeing her in something other than quick-to-remove lingerie and 5" platform heels. I have enough info about her that I can google her, access her on LinkedIn, and essentially turn into a Grade A stalker. It looks like we will be doing this again next month, and it looks like we have another restaurant and plans to go to a park the next day already made. My motto of my SC life has always been to let fantasy get in the way of reality. Now for the first time, it's the other way.

Yet even with this sudden dose of "real", there was a clear pattern to her sharing so much with me. It seemed like one part of it was for me to know who she was before she began stripping, and the other part of it was apparently to know she was looking for a life after stripping. Knowing I am married, knowing she's a mom, and sensing she's not much for hotel tricks, it became clear she's looking for some sugar-daddy action, at the very least a little low-key sugar-daddy advice, for the cost of meals and of course time in the club. She's not asked me for a retainer yet, so it's just been a matter so far of providing her with company, food and a little evening income at the club in exchange for some sexy fun.

While there's only so much advice one (even if he is 25 years older) can give someone who was a married stay-at-home mom for a few years and doesn't have a broad work background beyond the SC, it is clear she is an engaging communicator, and seems to be good about taking care of herself. If anyone could probably "move on" into real life. it's her.

The alpha-dog part of me wants to stick to the sex part and know her by her stage name. The beta part of me wants to move this along and see where it goes. I think the alpha-dog route is the safer way to go, and has been my road taken in the past. But when you know a gal for long enough, even in an SC, if they actually like you, at some point it seems like things will take a turn into the friend/sugar-daddy zone. Something I am clearly not prepared for.
Jul 2014
Jul '17
9
5/1
114/80
7
June 14, 2017
41
July 22, 2017
This was my second foray into Tijuana. The first was in November 2014 when I crossed the border and hit Hong Kong three days out of the four that I was in San Diego. I learned a lot back then (with advice from TUSCL contributors), and I'm still learning. There have been other, very helpful posts on TUSCL, and my intent with this long-ass article is to add details that I think would also prove helpful to anyone who has not yet made the journey and is contemplating it. And yeah, ya should. The place is just unreal.

Planning for this trip started a few months ago. I had to be in Orange County for a conference, so my flight to California from the East Coast was covered by my employer. I went out a few days early, rented a car, and drove the 90 minutes south to the border.

The first thing I will tell you is that instead of staying in San Diego (as I did for visiting family during the last trip), I booked a room in San Ysidro, California, the town where the border crossing is. TUSCL trolls, don't give me any shit for not actually staying in TJ. For a number of reasons, staying in the U.S. allows me to cover my ass and gives me a little plausible deniability with the wife back home. (Just trying to avoid the inevitable "Honey, when you called me three of the nights you were gone, how come there are roaming charges from Mexico on our cell phone bill?") As I said, don't give me any shit! A guy does what he has to do to preserve domestic tranquility.

BORDER CROSSING INTO MEXICO
There are things about the border crossing that have changed since I was here in 2014, and things will continue to change. The old crossing still works pretty much the same way as before, and you can travel south into Mexico and north into the U.S. there. There is a brand new crossing about a mile to the west, but it's my understanding that for *now* you can only cross there from Mexico into the U.S. I read that that will change sometime soon, and eventually the old crossing will be torn down.

Not sure about parking at the new crossing; I think it might be $8.00 during the week and $25.00 on the weekend. I stuck with the old crossing and parked in the lot next to and behind the Jack-in-the-Box. The pay lot is open 24 hours, $8.00 for 8 hours, cash only. If you return even one minute after your 8 hours are up, you will pay another $8.00, so keep that in mind. It's a short walk from there to the border crossing – just follow the crowd.

I had heard they were stamping passports going into Mexico now, and to avoid that (plausible deniability and all) – and based on advice here on TUSCL – I had gotten a Global Entry pass several months ago. It also allows you to skip the long lines coming back and provides automatic TSA Pre-Check whenever you fly. Worked like a charm coming back. Going into Mexico the first two days, I was not stopped by anyone nor required to show anything. HOWEVER, on the third day going into Mexico, I was asked by the Mexican Border Patrol agent to show my passport – which I did not have with me. I showed him my Global Entry card, which he said is only good for getting back into the U.S. He said, "You have to have a passport." WTF – no one said a word to me the prior two days. After a brief moment of unease on my part, he let me in and said, "Next time, bring your passport." Phew! Still not sure about the stamping of passports. Note that if you bring anything into Mexico with you (I carried a small messenger bag), they run it through a scanner like at an airport, but getting in is really easy.

The rest of the route to HK has been well documented on TUSCL. Walk along with the crowd for a few minutes, grab a Yellow Cab, and say, "Hong Kong, cinco, si?" (they always said yes to me). Incidentally, Tijuana taxis are a trip in and of themselves, as the drivers race to get you to your destination, and whatever rules of the road they have there seem more like mere suggestions. After five minutes, $5.00 (US) and a dollar tip, you're there. The Yellow Cabs have to stop in front of Adelita Bar a couple of doors down from HK; there is another cab company that gets to park in front of HK. No biggie. Just walk back to HK.

MONEY
All transactions can be made in US dollars. Others here have recommended changing to pesos to get a better deal (depending on the prevailing exchange rate), but I did not bother with that. Not saying you shouldn't use pesos – just saying you don't have to. And you all know you never use a credit card in a strip club, right?

HOTEL CASCADAS
Before I left I had PM'ed a fellow TUSCL contributor about advice on a few things, and he suggested that even though I was staying overnight in San Ysidro I might want to book a room at Hotel Cascadas, which occupies about six floors above Hong Kong. He pointed out that the rooms are really cheap if you spring for a VIP card at HK (more on that in a moment), and if you plan take girls upstairs several times over two or three days (or multiple times each day/night, like I did), the card pretty quickly pays for itself. In addition, there's no knock at the door when your 30 minutes are up.

I made a reservation the week before for three nights via the hotel's website (which is reachable from the HK website). They don't require a credit card number for the reservation, but they do ask for an email address to send you a confirmation. I registered using a fake name (but a real email address) based on TUSCL advice about using a fake name when you get the VIP card. I used the same alias for both the hotel reservation and the card. Believe me, nobody cared or asked.

When you make the reservation online, the website will tell you what your total will be, based on the rack rate of $55 a night for a standard room Sunday-Thursday, $70 Friday and Saturday – and says that discounts will be applied upon check-in. When you arrive, first go to HK to get your VIP card and then check into the hotel next door (literally two steps from the HK entrance). I was so fortunate that my TJ trip included a Monday and a Tuesday, since the VIP discount on those two days is a whopping 80%, bringing the cost of the room down to $11 a night. When you consider that if you don’t have your own room and you want to take a girl upstairs, it will cost you $17 per half hour (and double that if you take two girls at a time, which I did on my last visit). The discount on other nights is 20%, bringing the cost down to $44 – which is still not too bad, especially if you plan to use the room for multiple visits. All transactions are done in cash, with US dollars or, if you prefer, pesos.

The standard room has a sink, bed, enclosed toilet, separate shower, and decent variable "mood" lighting. Perfect, really. (Deluxe rooms are also available at a higher rate.) I paid a $20 fully-refundable deposit for a remote control for the AC. There was also a TV, but I did not use it. Over three days, I don't think they serviced the room in any way, but they did promptly honor my request for clean towels on day three.

THE VIP CARD
You can look on the HK website for a list of the perks you get when you buy a VIP card. I didn't avail myself of all that much (didn't use the free limo to or from the border, no fancy bottle service, etc.) but it's pretty easy to get your money's worth, especially if you stay at the hotel on a Monday and/or a Tuesday. You go right to the desk on the left as you enter HK, tell them you want a VIP card, and give them $50. They will ask your name (whatever you choose to give them), enter that into the computer, mark your expiration date on your card with a Sharpie (it's good for four months), and you're good to go.

The tricky part about using the card is that if you want, say, your free drink, you have to go to the front desk and tell them you want a free drink. They log that in their system showing that you've now requested that for the day (you only get one per visit) and give you a receipt to give to any bartender or waiter (mesero). I guess that's OK, but if you're sitting in a booth with a chica bonita and you decide you want to take her for your half-price lap dance, you just can't take her to the lap dance room – you have to go back to the desk at the entrance where they go through the same routine of logging you in and giving you a receipt (and taking your $11, which is half the standard $22 price). This actually takes a few minutes, so you might think about doing that in advance if you really think you'll get a lap dance. You definitely can do it on the spur of the moment, but there will be a few minutes of wood-killing procedural folderol.

HK COUPONS
There are some useful coupons which you can print out from the HK website for different things like, for example, one free appetizer or lap dance. You redeem them at the desk at the entrance to HK. They nominally keep track, asking for your email address (you can make that up if you want; I did and it was not a problem), which you write on the back of the coupon. They then staple a receipt to your coupon which you can give to one of the meseros to use. You can't use them in combination with your VIP card, and they're only supposed to be good once during your day/night visit, but if you're cagey (and if there's a different person at the desk when you go back), you can get away using more than one.

MESEROS
People here on TUSCL sometimes complain about the meseros (waiters) because they are omni-present, but I thought they were great pretty much across the board. They all speak English, which can be very helpful, and they are genuinely interested in making sure you have a good experience at HK. Yes, that means more tips for them, but they are all pleasant and eager to please. Not one shorted me on change nor automatically "kept" the tip. If you speak no Spanish, you would do well to befriend a mesero.

GENERAL VIBE IN THE CLUB
Even though you may be entering what many would consider to be a legal bordello, this is not a sleazy place – far from it. HK is very nicely-appointed, easily rivaling many of the upscale clubs in the U.S. The lighting is great throughout, as are the stages and the available seating. Even when it's not super-crowded, there's a fun vibe. The girls are pretty much all in the 7-9 range, with something for everyone in terms of tall, short, thick or thin (though not a lot of ethnic diversity). It's my understanding that the girls all have to get health-tested regularly to work there, and from a personal hygiene standpoint (based on close personal contact with dozens of them), they are generally much cleaner than a lot of American strippers are. And gorgeous.

Every girl I talked to was from somewhere other than Tijuana – Mexico City, Guadalajara, Monterrey, Jalisco, Sinaloa, etc. They come and stay a week or two, make a ton of money (more than what they can make at home), and then go back to their lives and families. It's very rare to find any who are fluent in English. Most speak a little English; a few speak virtually none. My Spanish skills are rudimentary, at best, and I had my best times with those who knew a few words of English and/or were patient with my lousy Spanglish. I found that one of the most useful phrases is "Como se dice..." [co-mo say dee-say], which means "How do you say...?" which shows you are at least making an attempt.

GETTING THE MOST FOR YOUR MONEY
First of all, compared to what you have to pay in U.S. clubs, it's just dirt cheap here, and you can have a good time for even just a fistful of dollars. A single U.S. dollar bill will give you a chance to fondle any girl's boobs – and probably her pussy as well. For the price of a girl's drink – $9.00, plus a $1.00 tip – you can have a girl sit with you in a booth while you explore each others' charms. It's pretty much a given in this situation that breasts will be bared – and maybe more – and touching is the norm. Yes, some of the girls will down their drinks quickly and move on, but they really have an incentive to stay and do what they can to convince you to take them upstairs. Most are quite friendly and accommodating in the booths.

If you're not quite ready to commit to going upstairs, you can get a lap dance (for $22), which is done in a private room with frosted glass. As I mentioned above, free or half-price lap dances are available with the VIP card or a coupon from the website. I did a couple of those, and with one girl I got a CBJ for an additional $20.

Prices quoted to me for going upstairs (arriba) ranged from $60 to $100. The going quoted rate seemed to be $80; some settled for $60, others held firm at $80. The one girl who quoted me $100 very quickly came down to $80. This is basically for 30 minutes in a room at the Hotel Cascadas (see above). Though I know the price of the room can vary, I think it's basically about $17 for 30 minutes. Once you and the girl settle on a price for her time, you go to the door of HK (either the front door or the back door), the girl is given a robe by the door guy (for which you tip $1.00), and you go to the hotel desk on the second floor. You pay the $17, they give the girl a condom and some lube, and you're on your way. I will leave the rest up to your imagination.

No matter where I was in the club or the hotel, I never felt that anyone was out to cheat me or ROB me. All transactions were on the up-and-up. Everyone treated me with kindness and respect -- and, naturally, I reciprocated.

GENERAL VIBE ON THE STREET
I was aware, based on recent TUSCL postings, that there has been some violence on the street around HK, but unless you're drunk and/or stupid (or both) and you keep your wits about you, you should be OK. I was on the street both day and night and never felt threatened. At night, the street (at least the block with HK and Adelita Bar) is so well lit that it's almost like daylight. I saw LOTS and LOTS of street girls hanging out – they are everywhere. I did not interact with any of them on this trip, and other TUSCLers have described that scene more knowledgeably than I ever could. I will say only that the opportunity to engage with them is ever-present.

BORDER CROSSING INTO THE UNITED STATES
Cabs are always parked outside HK; the ride back to the border is $5.00 (plus a $1.00 tip). Just be sure to specify whether you want to be dropped at the old border (vieja frontera) or the new border (nueva frontera). In my experience, the cab drivers all speak English, or at least enough to get you where you need to go. They will drop you off for the (hopefully) short walk to the border crossing station.

Others here have talked about what times are best and worst to try to make the crossing. If you cross on a weekend afternoon, you may wait in line for three to four hours! I crossed at the old border station either early or late evening and there was no line at all. I would guess that much of the foot traffic has migrated to the new crossing. I also was equipped with my Global Entry pass, which saved me a little time, but really, at that time of day there were so few people it didn't make much difference.

You have to stop and talk to a U.S. Border Patrol agent, who will ask you one or more questions, but it's really no big deal. One asked me where I had been and didn't blink when I said La Zona Norte. I think I was always asked where I was going; I said I had a hotel room in San Ysidro. All asked if I had anything to declare (apparently, that's the one required question), and since I hadn't bought anything other than great memories, my answer was always no and I was waved through. It should go without saying that you should not try to bring any drugs with you – in either direction. I am not sure of the likelihood of getting caught, but I am certain that the consequences would not be favorable.

Well, I hope that this has been helpful to you. There are plenty of TUSCLers who are more experienced at this than I am, and I expect that some will post additions, corrections or clarifications to what I've written. I welcome that. And I strongly encourage anyone who has not yet made the trip to do so – before Donald Trump builds that wall!
Jun 2017
Jul '17
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June 14, 2017
7
July 14, 2017
This is just a quick article describing my experience regarding transitioning from a single patron of the strip clubs (via Miami) to going on strip club prowls with Wifey.

I started going to strip clubs at the tender age of 20 years old. One of my good friends who was several years older than me inviting me to a strip club in Carol City. This was the beginning to my strip club journey. It was amazing and scary at the same time.. I didn’t know what to do, what was allowed and who to do it with, lol. Over the next several years I became acquainted with various strip clubs including Cheetahs, Booby Traps and Scarlet’s (my favorite). I visited either alone or with the fellas. Now, as many of you know, if you hit the right strip club at the right time the menu is open to anything you can virtually want. So through my 20s I had a great time, spent a lot of money and don’t regret anything that occurred. Now in my late 20s I met my wife, beautiful, Indian, fine, everybody want her (lol, nah, for real). The problem is that not only do I want her I want all the bitches and strip club and I need to figure out how to continue my quests (alone or as a couple).

Now with Wifey being Indian from India, her moral framework is very different from mine, however I knew she was simi-ok with it because 1st, she with me and 2nd she knew about my journeys. Now with wifey in the picture I had to slow down on my strip club frequencies, however each time I went I told her. I even invited her. I wanted her to know that I enjoyed going and that I didn’t plan on stopping. This is where you know what kind of girl you have. After several times of going without her she finally decided to come with. The first time I went easy, just tipping the girls on stage and didn’t go for a dance (even though she asked why I wasn’t). The next couple of times I spread my wings a little, which didn’t end how I wanted. She got upset however this was the same time that I noticed that Tequila gets her mad (lol). She got upset over strippers asking about dances. So fucking stupid, that is what we were there for! This was a little aggravating however I wasn’t discouraged, I was set on making this a regular thing. The following trips to the club I made sure she only had vodka or fireball (her favorites). I knew that when she drinks these, she is always down to have a good time, and fellas, that’s what we had. She became comfortable in the environment and actually started taking control, picking girls and befriending girls. It has been exactly what I wanted since then. You must be patient and let them take control (better yet, let them think that they are in control).

Now, with this being said, there are several pros and cons associated with the transition. The pros: 1.) Two girls and one guy - every man’s dream. Let her pick the girl, if you guys have watched porn together she knows what you like and you know what she likes so more than likely it will be someone you both like. Even with that being said, wifey will want to make sure that she’s the baddest bitch during play time so initially, give her the most attention, unless she’s just as hungry as you. 2.) If it happened once, it will happen again!! Caution, be patient, allow some time to pass as she will be thinking about the encounter over and over. If possible let her bring it up. It might be something simple like, “Remember that time or remember when we”. That is your que to go for it, she’s ready however don’t be pushy, make it seem organic. The cons: 1.) The first and most important con is that this could result in the end of your relationship, but hey, you only live once, you have to go for what you want – ain’t no more to that. 2.) Since she allowed you to be with her and another girl, it is possible that she may want to bring another man into the bedroom – hell nah! Don’t let this one bother you fellas, come up with a strong excuse why this is not okay at the beginning, before anything ever happens so she already knows that “it’s a no” – be creative, blame it on a past relationship. 3.) She may want to end up with the girl solodolo and leave you. Again fellas, believe in yourselves, this can be a positive if you play it right. You either whisper her ear like demons on her shoulders that it’s best that you both do this as a team and tell her how it will make your relationship stronger. Or my favorite, tell her it’s ok for her to have a girlfriend (stripper gf!! – yes, winning).

Fellas! You must not become discouraged or feel like this is an impossible feat. If you believe that it can happen, believe wholeheartedly that this is achievable, there is no doubt that it can and will happen. Happy hunting fellas!
Small city in the Deep South
Sep 1999
Jul '17
9
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June 14, 2017
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July 15, 2017
Lap Dance Prices, Alfred North Whitehead, and Market Irrationality
---or---
Lapper prices. Are they going up? AGAIN? Fucking what the fucking FUCK?

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So, are lap-dance prices rising? It looks like $40 for one song is becoming appropriate in some settings for some contexts. An interim measure of $35 is not unreasonable, so the market seems to suggest. The $20 lapper's days may be numer.

But. Do you remember every single goddamned time that lap-dance prices started going up, every single occasion that it happened, and JUST HOW GODDAMNED PISSED OFF you were about it?

I remember mainly the one big tectonic plate-shift of lapper pricing some time in around 1997 or so ... some cities earlier, some cities later; some clubs were exploitative or at least opportunistic early adopters of the new regime, and other clubs responded by being recalcitrant opportunistic exploiters of their competition's price hikes! Eventually, though, everybody made the change, and they've made it more or less permanent. Upwards.

By 1997 or so, I think, things had finally changed to the more expensive.

Up to the late 80s and early 90s, a lap-dance was an oddity and not the norm, to be had at a smaller number of certain "special" clubs which made up 50% or less of the total "burlesque" market out there, which consisted of variously named joints buildings centers clubs establishments venues etc. all of which provided women in stages of undress. Hence, up the the late 80s or early 90s, a lap-dance would cost about $10, though it might come in a pricing-packet bundle or it might require other outlay of funds for other amenities.

But then, by the late 90s, things had changed. Burlesque as a performance was long since dead, while sexual services and most "adult" establishments were growing more and more mainstream. Jazz bands and feather boas were no longer necessary. It started to look like every strip-club would soon offer SOME form of dancer-to-customer contact: a lap-dance or bed-dance or sweetheart-dance or just plain old "back room". Small city council jurisdictions across the country began ongoing battles with First Amendment Rights activists over how to curtail this lewd anti-social menace. By the end of the change-over, an official lap-dance would come to be established as lasting the length of ONE rock-song, at roughly 3.5 to 4.5 minutes; and it would cost $20, though it still might be assorted into pricing-packet bundles of one sort or another as of yore. And there really hadn't been much middle ground. Rather, BOOM! suddenly prices DOUBLED and they did so everywhere for everything lapper.

I think my recollection is roughly accurate at least for the cities which I frequented at that time -- mostly, Tampa and Toronto, and a little bit of Memphis and New Orleans and Detroit or points nearby. In 1988, it would have been $10 for maybe a five-minute "cuddle dance" on a couch at the side of a club. By 2000, it was pretty much guaranteed to be $20 for a one-rock-song lap-dance at the patron's chosen location, higher entry price for more privacy.

To me, the change from $10 to $20 was a radical game-changer. Before the change, I would just head on out to sample the party, like grabbing a few chicken wings at the buffet. It was easy to take what I wanted and to experience up to satiety. I got ENOUGH. Nobody could possibly have danced me into the ground, neither wallet-wise nor duration-wise, because the experience was generic and simple. Then after the change, I had to plan, to think, to goddamned care about what I did with my time, and therefore I had to choose how much. How much of EVERYTHING. I had to choose how much to drink of alcohol, or whether to drink at all; I had to pick which club to visit; I had to decide what to wear; I had to remember when I had last shaved my face (and my balls); I had to consider whether or not I lived in the same city as people who might recognize me at an "illicit adult establishment" and whether that would be bad for my workplace image. Worse, I had to select among the dancers. I had to "examine" each one for lap-dance viability, run them through an audition in the expensive "trial" pricing structures before heading to any potential longer session of bundled dances in a more private room, and so forth. It went from off-the-cuff to make-an-appointment-in-the-datebook, from whatever-floats-your-boat to there's-a-right-way-to-get-this-thing-organized-properly.

Yet I personally hadn't really gotten any poorer or richer during the change. The new price totally changed my ATTITUDE. By the way, it's no surprise to me to note, that the change happened just as the internet started to become mainstream. Girls and managers started to find out what other clubs and other cities were like and they started to be able to compare experiences, the pricing climbed to what the market would probably have tolerated for quite a long preceding time, and they could have raised the prices earlier except they just didn't have information, didn't know how to exploit the demand.

The change changed my MIND. My disposable income would easily keep up with the change, and the overall impact on my personal bottom line was perhaps still negligible. I invested the same amount of my total income, I spent the same amount of time on going out to strip clubs as compared to working out or seeing movies or attending church, I drank the same amount of alcohol (or non-alcohol). The cost of lappers didn't really impact those balances. Well, of course, I'm sure I would like to have all that spent money BACK, wouldn't we all? I would want it sitting in some Mutual Fund growing interest ever since that day that I had instead spent it, naturally. But I'd say exactly the same thing about any money I spent on vacations or expensive dinners at nice restaurants -- gee, if I could have it back, if I could go back in time. But we can't. Duh. So the expenses, for me, from before or after, at $10 or $20, neither made nor broke me, neither represented "good" or "bad" pricing in true neo-Liberal Free Market terms. I had little intrinsic sense of the value of a lapper, other than that price-point at which the market had evaluated it and therefore charged me for it. True Economics 101. But somehow, despite my agnosticism regarding any intrinsic worth that a lapper might have to me, I just could not mentally "justify" spending the larger amount of money. At $20, I suddenly felt like a lapper "had to be worth it" to be bought; I felt like I would keep in mind my expenditures; I felt like girls had really better KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

And yet, damnit, they DON'T. Lappers haven't gotten any better. Dancers haven't gotten any more skilled at them. The likelihood that, in my first lap-dance with a dancer who is otherwise a new acquaintance to me, her dancing will turn out to give me an excellent experience, or a miserable one, is still about the same likelihood. If I had to put numbers on it, I'd say it's roughly 60% likely, that I'll enjoy the lapper enough to say I don't regret it; another 15% or 20% likely that it will be so extremely wonderful that I'll want more more more from the same girl (i.e., that's a chance of about 1 in 4, ranging to 1 in 3, per individual dancer); and the remaining 20% to 25% likely (1 in 4 overall) that this will be the one only and last dance I ever have from her because she's lame. Before, at $10, those were the likelihoods; and now, after, at $20, those are still the likelihoods. This fact bothers me. More money for no more service. Drat. Fuckin' free market sux man.

Income has not necessarily increased for mongers appreciably over that time-period; I suppose for DANCERS it has, at least in terms of potential income per hour or per song? An average working dude has an income which reflects his status, education, skill, duration of tenure, value, negotiation, ethics, whatever, just the same. Salaries for PLs haven't gone up disproportionately, have they? The cost of doing lap-dance business has not significantly increased. In fact, I think it has partly decreased, given that the legality of the situation is more clear-cut and the mainstream social pressure to avoid it has been reduced. It costs the same, or less, to give lap dances. And the clients are not any richer than we were. But the prices have gone up.

So why is our higher expense not yielding higher levels of service? The pervasive nature of lappers, I suppose, is the explanation among the neo-Liberals. The damn spin-on-my-crotch things are taking place all over the map, every club, every county, all the patrons have heard about them and want them, it's become almost impossible to legislate against them and everyone knows it; therefore, it's become clear that there's a higher demand than was understood in the $10 era, right? That's what they'd say. And with more demand can be higher prices right? Demand up, all other things equal, prices up.

Well, but there's also more supply, in my opinion. More girls are willing to do lapper dances, partly because it's more self-evident that the action isn't an illegal activity; partly because, hey, everyone's doing it, there's less social censure against it. Many many more clubs offer the lap-dance experience. In fact, I think more clubs EXIST, are IN BUSINESS at all, than before. And by the way, it's an unlimited resource, this thing called pussy; they keep making more 18 year old girls, and last time I looked, every single one of them had an 18-year-old body, not a year older! How on earth can a perpetual, unlimited resource be in SHORT supply? Young girls are reckless, and are busy one-upping one another in the looks department, and they always will be. There's never going to be a dearth of dancers, only a dearth of clubs or a dearth of jurisdictions that allow clubs with lap-dances. So far, the First Amendment Activists have driven the market's supply side well toward favoring the mongers by eliminating that threat. Infinitely more dancers, more clubs, more opportunity, less restriction, this all means much more supply. Prices should go down, right?

So, we must engender competition to lower prices. We can cause them to drop, I suppose, would be our natural and necessary reply. I guess. TUSCL would be a good place to start. Rise up, brothers in chairs! Brothers on sofas, in back rooms, behind thinly-veiled curtains of VIP! Join in solidarity, to demand what is our God-given right, to a full-service fair accord in which lap-dances are not exorbitantly priced! I don't exactly see that this will ever come to fruition. In fact, if anything, prices seem to be on the verge of going UPWARDS again. What the fuck? Now $35 at some of the higher-end clubs, and $40 is pretty much the norm on weekends in the big cities.

Too much, I sometimes think. They haven't priced me out of the market due to my lack of funds. They're priced me out of the market due to their lack of respect. It's not that I can't afford it, or that I make different choices with my money. Often I withdraw the same old amount, absent-mindedly, and then just don't happen to go to a club to spend it. I'm not "thinking with my feet." I'm just wondering why anyone would WANT that. I really don't feel it's sensible (I suppose this means, I AM thinking with my feet, I admit it) to spend more on a single rock-song's worth of lap dancing than I would on an ENTIRE DAY of out-of-the-house dining. I think of three to four minutes of a girl gyrating on my willy with her butt and coochie as ... well, as not a big deal; it's an untrained, non-trade, non-unionized, off-the-cuff, can-do-it-at-any-time-of-day-or-night, requires no infrastructure, is not a liability concern, has no HIPPAA compliance mandate, toss-off purchase. Like getting that Snickers bar at the gas station while paying for my gasoline: nothing I need, something I probably cannot be said even to WANT, merely something I happened to open my wallet for, something I would just as well do without as do with. An impulse purchase, no value added to my life, neither necessary nor durable nor staple nor idiosyncratically exotic.

Exotic? Is a lap-dance actually a LUXURY service? I don't think so. It fits that sector, according to the classical economist, I suppose. But then he quotes Maslow on the hierarchy of needs and puts the drive for reproduction at the top of the list, which of course is inherently one major cause of any hetero male's interest in a lapper, right? He's contradicting himself, this economist.

No, lappers are "fun money" income. My impression is, that just as McDonald's jobs were never DESIGNED to be longer-term income for longer-term employees, for the permanent American under-class of dope-stupid brain-deads who won't finish High School, similarly, lapper services are not DESIGNED to be the full means of support for single mothers. McDonald's employees are SUPPOSED to be high-school kids who stil live at home, use mom and dad's car on the weekends, and are learning the meaning of an honest day's work for an honest dollar, right? The market for pricing, of the burger or of their wages, is not entirely a free market neo-liberal phenomenon. We giving them money because it incentivizes their education, see what I mean? As the economist would whine, there should be no minimum wage for a bunch of high school kids who don't need or want the job. To the contrary, if we let Democrats and other Socialists unionize them and drive up the minimum wage for burger-flippers, what we're doing is crediting the entire fast-food industry with the capacity to operate as though it were the same as the Life Insurance sector, replete with product managers and investment oversight boards and a right to tax-break consideration when they provide meaningful infrastructure investment, right?

Similarly, we should not give the lap-dance industry that type of credit. A hot chick is hot because of no thing she ever did. Her ability at a lapper could motivate me to pay her more, because of value added, but the industry doesn't guarantee me that she will have the requisite level of skill (see above, dance quality is not improving, in the aggregate, despite increased prices and even in the face of grossly inflated supply). Her level of education, like the McDonald's burger flipper, is really the central question here. To me, as a patron, if she wants $35 a dance, I'm going to have to decide whether her Big Mac is worth it or not. In a truly free market, in which the consumer (demand) works as hard as the producer (supply), there would be give-and-take. Groups of mongers would refuse to pay; enclaves of low pricing would pop up, with opportunistic dancers and club managers taking advantage of their competition's hiked prices by lowering their own. The market would fluctuate, and reach fair equilibrium. But we don't have that situation, mongers are unlikely to balk at higher prices (see above, I don't exactly see that this will ever come to fruition), consequently we're supporting an inflated price structure. To put it in neo-Liberal terms, we're paying the price of our own stupidity. So, the purchase just looks stupider and stupider, and the consumer grows more and more alienated from the interaction.

It can't really be said that the dancers are an intelligent market participant, in the aggregate. They go out, they take what they can get, they dance the night away, grinding on crotches if they get $100 profit at the end of the night or $500. In fact, the indeterminacy of their night's worth of income is one factor that argues strongly in favor of their failure to be a truly "rational" economic actor. They don't make a decision on the basis of the cost (in their case, the negative cost; the income). They can't, because they can't KNOW it. Rather, they are ADDICTED to it. They're hooked on the adrenalin and the ease of having money for "nothing but partying" and the sales-pitch nature of the situation. Every dancer who needs more money, promptly reads off of single girl who made more money than her, the clear message of, "You must just not be hot enough." The absence of rational economic decision-making on their part, and perhaps on our part too, makes this a woffly weeply market that makes little sense. Drama, prices, coolness, adolescent kissing games on the basement sofa, can we really say that the "market will bear" a price increase? I don't think so. Because I don't think there IS a market for lap-dances.

I mean, sure, viewed from a long distance away, of course there is. Neo-Liberal and classical economists will show you that the mere fact of it taking place is enough to say that something is working like a market, and I do agree. But I think the thing that is being bought and sold is absolutely not lap-dances. It makes much more sense to consider it as a market of self-esteem, or of cojones, mojo, some sort of "intrinsic" value that we humans place upon ourselves and place upon other humans. If you flip-flip all the above analysis, and stop thinking about price-per-service, dollar outlay for a lap-dance, maybe it makes a little bit more sense.

At least, it does to me. When I think, "Hey, why is it exactly that I don't want to pay $35, I probably don't want to pay $20, but I'm OK with paying $10," and the thing I'm buying is something that is essentially useless to me, I wonder what kind of brain I have. A luxury or unnecessary good, yet I have an emotional need to evaluate it at a certain "reasonable" level? You can't buy a luxury goods or services with "reason." The market for luxury has no reason. Nobody ever owned a Lamborghini "reasonably." It doesn't admit of rational economic actors. A Lamborghini doesn't travel any faster than the latest BMW or look any better than a classic Cadillac or, if you get drunk and puke in the Lamborghini, it doesn't smell any better than a mini-van after your kid has puked in it. (Worse, in fact, probably.) Lap-dances the same -- there is very little "rational" economic activity going on there. That's because we aren't buying lap-dances.

So, when I look at my emotional investment, what I see is, a need to evaluate myself highly. At $35 a song, a dancer is saying to me, "You're a PL and all I see is a dollar sign. I'm a Hoover, I will vacuum your wallet, have a nice day, this is an impersonal interaction. Pay. Oh wait, forgot, have to dance. Here (gyrate gyrate) tah dah, ten-second dance, now pay." Insulting. At $20 a song, I'm feeling like, "Well, take it or leave it mister, I'm sure someone else here will pay that much." And I like to be able to prove I'm not a PL, just for the novelty of it, you know. Once in a while, take my own life by the balls, be in charge, decide what I want and reject some things that I don't want. At $10, a dancer is saying to me, "I hope you like me. Please approve of me?" I like this, but it does smack of a little bit of desperation. She needs to make the sale, and therefore she engages in actions which will bring it about. Improving her skills; becoming personable; losing weight; appearing properly attractive. At $35 a song, she is no longer motivated to do so, because she knows that the likelihood of income is not seriously improved by her instigation of any improvement regiment. At $35, her being a bitchy cunt to ten men will still run nine of them off, but it will also net enough money from the tenth to make up for the lost nine. Whereas, at $10, she has her destiny in her own hands. Well, most of it; her tits are in my hands; and I suppose her tits are part of her destiny, aren't they? She needs OUR approval as much as we need hers. At $10, it feels to me like she asks us to approve of the transaction.

Problem is, of course, we go to strip clubs because we don't otherwise get females to do that. The reason this market is skewed, and the commodity waffles among self-esteem, lap services, the sex industry, and just plain old sales, is that one of the items that's being bought and sold is, in fact, the CAPACITY for market participation. It's like sales forces buying and selling salespeople from one another. Because the average PL lacks the capacity to woo (in other words, to NEGOTIATE) for himself the fact that (adequately hot, adequately apealing, adequately young) woman into lying in his bed and approving of him, he goes about finding other ways to get his hands on her tits. I do this, you do this, we all do this, PL or not. That much is free market. But then, the FACT of being good or bad at negotiation is, in itself, an indicator of market status. So, there's a self-referential circle going on. The PL lacks what he seeks; sure, we know that. But also, the lack of it causes him to be poor at seeking at. A double-whammy. Thus, the dancer is free to double-exploit.

If you know your Whitehead, here's a theory, a propounded but perhaps profound metaphor: we are the set of all sets. The sex industry, and in particular the mainstream-most part of it, that is, the pictures of semi-naked girls who advertise underwear in the newspapers and magazines, and who grind on our laps at strip clubs, is self-referential. When you buy a car, you need some degree of negotiation skills, but you are not BUYING the very act of negotiating between yourself and a salesperson. When you buy even the nicest Lamborghini, you may get a high price or a low price depending to some extent on your own negotiation skills, but you will absolutely not be able to say, after the interaction, that you have become a better negotiator by merit of owning a Lamborghini. Aside from the small lesson of experience that you get from that one interaction, you gain no salesman points. Study enough of them, sure, you can learn. But mostly, it's an engine, tires, and an expensive chassis which you have bought.

To the contrary, when you buy a lapper, you buy negotiation. You not only get the service that you have purchased. You also get the sense that you are now better at buying that service. Why is this? Well, because otherwise there would be a much more rational market for lap-dance services. Unlimited supply would dictate a rather low price; flagging demand would lower that price; any sensible competition among dancers would further lower it. The market doesn't seem to act that way. Therefore, I conclude, the thing which we are selling is not lap-dance services, but rather, self-esteem, of the subtle form that I would call self-reference. Getting a lap-dance causes the provider (the dancer) or manufacturer (her mother?) to think that a negative has taken place -- she has gyrated, offered a service, reduced her value by performing actions which otherwise she would not do. She brings almost no expertise, but she raises demand by being remarkably visually appealing. The desire for her is there, so the demand for her is there. But it is evanescent. Hotter girl walks by, and monger watches her instead. Super-hottie walks by, and I've been known to break off halfway through a song with a half-hearted ugg and chase down her much more desirable competition! And guess what? The ugg seldom complains. She knows she should not get the money. Intrinsically, inherently, sub-consciously, she is already aware that it would HURT her more to chase after her former customer to demand that he pay for what he partially received, in the face of her knowledge that he desires someone else more than he desires her.

Hence, she is not selling the service. Else she would naturally demand money for it. (Some still do, of course. Maybe most. The market is still fairly powerful in her mind. But my example of how it HURTS her, merely makes the point that there's a sub-conscious twinge of regret, a tie to something other than price of service paid for that service.) Instead, to her, she is BUYING OUR APPROVAL, and we, too, are buying her ability to give us her approval.

That's why the prices need to be within a reasonable range, and that's why most of us can probably invest "emotional" value in lap-dance pricing. Some high prices are "too" high, even though the service is supposedly just a luxury. Some low prices may be "too" low as well, demeaning to seller and to buyer, reducing the transaction to something unpleasant. I don't want just any old ass to grind on my crotch. I want That One Special Girl to do so, and I want to make sure I know she's special, and I want her to know that I know, and she wants me to know that I know that she knows, and so on and on and so forth, self-referentially impossible to escape the cycle.

Whitehead explained all of this in his Principia Mathematica. In this book, his grand scheme was to come up with a mathematics of everything. He (and his student Bertrand Russel) did come up with a mathematics of a lot of things. But of everything? No, they ultimately decided that would be impossible. Why? Because there could never be a complete mathematics OF mathematics. Any system which has to reference itself, also has to contradict itself. They proved this assertion through the now-famous example of the "set of all sets." (I won't go into the reasoning. This paragraph has enough proper nouns related to it, for you to easily find the reasoning by means of Google and Wikipedia.) Strip-clubbing, like much of pornography and the adult-services industry, is inextricably self-referential. We don't buy in order to have the product. We buy, or sell, in order to approve of ourselves, and in turn to gain the knowledge of another person offering us their approval, and in turn to know that she knows that we know, and so on. Thus, it CANNOT act like a rational market commodity. It MUST have some degree of extremely irrational behavior.

Such as, at present, the fact that prices go up even though demand is rather small, costs are already prohibitively high, and world-wide supply is demonstrably unlimited.

Next question, then, how do we stop this nefarious cycle? Just some thoughts. Yours also welcome.
Jun 2016
Jun '17
3
0/1
5/4
0
June 14, 2017
13
Yesterday
Liquid Lapdance shorts (referred to as LL from herein) look like a jockstrap with a pouch of latex to hold the genitalia. This latex pouch creates a very pleasing sensation (after generous application of lubrication) once an entertainer is grinding heavily against it. The opening to the latex pouch has no elastic band. The latex is very thick and elastic and smooth, reminiscent of nitrile medical gloves without the grainy texture. The user is supposed to insert a desired amount of lubrication into the pouch and spread the lubrication into the inner surface by rubbing the outside of the pouch between his palms.

The variables of the experiment are choice of wear, choice of lubrication, going commando vs not, choice of dancer/ dancing position, and alternative LDK methods. To maintain maximum discretion I kept the latex pouch hidden out of sight, and tucked up against my groin/ pubic mound during all instances of testing.

1) choice of wear: I experimented with loose fitting basketball shorts (100% polyester), sweatpants (95% polyester, 5% spandex), dress pants(53%wool, 46% polyester, 2% spandex), and tight fitting basketball shorts(100% polyester). When going commando I managed to achieve LDK with all choices of wear except the tight fitting basketball shorts.

Please note that the latex pouch was OBVIOUSLY NOTICEABLE in the daytime when wearing loose fitting shorts; I have not experimented with different brands of loose fitting shorts to determine if the pouch can be better hidden.

My recommendation is to wear dark sweatpants if going during the day time, and wearing dark shorts if going during the night time.

2) choice of lubrication: I experimented with silicone lube, water based lube, baby oil, and the jelly provided with the LL shorts. While I was able to achieve LDK with all of the aforementioned lubrication, the silicone and baby oil required tremendous amounts to achieve the same result.
It was during the use of the silicone lube and baby oil, WHILST wearing underwear that I noted a sensation of "crotch dampness" after the LD. It was akin to sitting in a pool of oil, highly uncomfortable and highly un-recommended.

I found the thick jelly provided with the LL shorts (and later thick water based gel lube) to be the best and most efficient lubrication.

3) to go commando or not: I managed to LDK regardless of my choice of wear EVEN WHEN wearing underwear over the pouch; however, the number of songs need to achieve the LDK was always higher (regardless of choice of wear). For instance, with water based jelly lubricant, commando, and loose shorts I'd LDK in two songs; whereas when I went in underwear (same lubricant and choice of wear) it'd take me four songs to achieve LDK.

During my first commando test (loose fitting shorts) I was very worried that the combination of liquid compliments and lubrication would leak out and trickle down my leg during vigorous
grinding; I am glad and relieved to report that this has never once been the case!

4) choice of entertainer/ dancing position: My subjective observation was that with rubenesque entertainers I was able to achieve LDK regardless of whether I was receiving a dance in CG-like/RCG-like/TF-like grinding position. However with thinner entertainers I was only ever able to achieve LDK from a CG-like position. I highly suspect this is the due to subjective bias (favoring rubenesques).

5) alternative LDK methods: I experimented with five alternate LDK methods, commando no lube, underwear no lube, underwear with lubricated condom, commando with lubricated condom, and commando with lube (no condom) all whilst wearing sweatpants (95% polyester, 5% spandex). I was unable to achieve LDK in the two instances of no lube, as well as the instance of underwear with lubricated condom. To my great surprise both remaining instances (commando with lube, and commando with lubricated condom) felt akin to wearing the LL. Of all the alternative LDK methods I far prefer commando with lube (no condom).

6) Possible sources of error: I had ordered twenty four pairs of LL when I decided to start this experiment, with the intent to use each pair only one time. However with 69 different combination of variables to test, I undoubtedly had to wash, dry, and reuse the LL shorts up to three times. This cleaning process was performed by hand with soap and warm water, and may have (in some way) contributed to LDK experiences.

I would have liked to lock down two entertainers for this experiment (one rubenesque, and one thin) but this was impossible. The enthusiasm of the entertainers may have contributed to LDK experiences (though I really want to doubt this).

Lastly choice of lubrication brand may have contributed to LDK experiences.

7) TL:DR : I highly recommend the LL if you don't want FS but still want to enjoy yourself, if you don't plan on being in the club after LDK'ing and if you don't mind walking around with a well used pseudo jock strap on the way home (understandably, loads of people can't get over this). I recommend any potential wearers to find a comfortable and dark pair of sweatpants (I used 95% polyester, 5% spandex) or dark and loose fitting athletic shorts (I used 100% polyester), with a thick water based-gel lubricant; while the choice to go commando (or not) should be made at your comfort/ discretion, I subjectively prefer going commando. Happy and safe hounding.
Sep 2016
Jul '17
3
33/1
3/3
1
June 6, 2017
6
June 30, 2017
LE stings and rip-offs are way to common. We miss the charm of brick and mortar establishments where the Madam would put a parade in your honor. Since the business moved online there's no choice but to adapt to the system of no returns policy and the traps looking to chain your rocks if you raise your guns in salutation.

0. Go to Mexico or Thailand or Europe. Otherwise go to a reviewed website or services, that have been around for sometime. Unless you want to really take some risk.

1. Reverse image search. If you are a Backpage lurker or a rubmap squatter this is the first thing to do. Chrome give a default right click option (right click on image) to search for images. Or you can download a image go to images.google.com and upload and search (there's a camera icon on right end of search bar). There's other websites like tineye that provide the same service.
You will be amazed 99% of the images are of Instagram models in public domain. Generally nobody posts real pictures online, not the least LE. Once you go online 4chan will keep you alive in dark corners. Now FB and Instagram have explicitly banned crawling for images. So you may not sometimes find match because the images have to be on domains that allow crawling.

2. Follow them Instagram models. Now this works in dual way. You get your kicks and you know some of them images directly by looking at them.

3. Reverse caller ID. Use TrueCaller app. Now I don't advertise them but they are damn good because it's self service, you register they get your contact list. It's as good as your friends telling the world who you are. There are other services but all of them are shitty at least in my experience.

4. Must hear voice. Know your codes text a bit : 929 is a Google voice number. There are many services that let you text and not call. There are many services that let you call but not text. Text can be spewed by bots. Once you text and are comfortable, you must call to verify the voice.
Must call and hear voice. The shorter and precise the girl talks the better. Remember nobody wants to flirt with you on phone. The max they should say is 2 sentences. I am available at time x, place y. Done. If they want to parley or talk more run they are LE.

5. Don't Id yourself. Time and again they will ask you for ID but you shouldn't. The girls know if you're LE, you will have a fake id. Also John is always fucked by LE , Jane has their sympathy.

6. Control your scene. Try to get your own.It may be tricky sometimes but you should try to avoid isolated residential places. Read more from PLs here.

7. BLOT. Try not to talk about money yourself or accept in plain yes/no. Say I trust you're worth a million :) You never know what you're bargaining for. Let them tell you. Best would be to let them tell you when you meet in person. Now it may sound ridiculous, but it's the best way. The ask will be in the ballpark you expect. Better let them get naked before :) that way you at least got to kiss and touch.

8. Never handover money directly and in plain view.

9. Never pay bfore the act.

10. Do not leave her out of sight.

11. If she acts funny or too excited or your gut feeling says something is wrong with the scene, run. Just say you got the wrong address.

12. Keep your expectations low. You are a PL. You won't find your DS here. Most would be average girl next door trying to temporarily make a quick buck to pay rent or tuition. Some may be junkies. Most may have tried stripping or web camming but got out of the game because of a broken limb by accident or design or got pregnant and gained weight. Most just lose the confidence to take to the pole, like you have lost your confidence to ask out a civilian.

13. Be nice. You don't need to make it rain. But once you have their trust you can make late night booty calls if you like them. The same with strippers once you start otc, you can keep it going if you want.

14. Personal Advice: Don't do it. Find a civvie ....Or Go to clubs ....Or Practice either chastity or masturbation. Good luck yanking your belts.
Apr 2017
Jul '17
1
0/1
2/1
1
May 28, 2017
12
June 22, 2017
Ok, Ok. The title is a little misleading.I have only been without testicles for a year now, but I was down to one testicle for about 16 years. When I was 16 years old I was diagnosed with testicular cancer.The 1st step in treating testicular cancer, is to remove the testicle. Well, actually they can't even confirm it is cancer until the testicle is removed and they can do a biopsy. At that time, I also went through Chemo and the whole 9 yards.Fast forward to last year and I feel a lump in my remaining testicle. They tried to only remove 1/2 of it to leave me with something but that didn't turn out so well and they had to remove the whole thing. Again, I went through chemo but much more intense this time. If you would like me to write an article about that whole experience, I will be happy to. But i am just laying down the background for where I am at now.

So living most of my post pubescent life with only 1 testicle made me very self conscious.My personality was always a bit more reserved but with only 1 testicle, made me scared shitless to approach women in a sexual way. I am now 32 and I have never hooked up, never dated, never even drunkenly made out. Now I know what most of you must be thinking right now "his lack of game has nothing to do with his balls or the lack there of. He is probably some ugly ass socially backward star trek nerd." I will be the 1st to admit that I am no Adonis, but I am also not bad to look upon. I am also a bit awkward but more in the we will laugh about this later. And my source for my appeal is not simply because my mother says I how handsome I am. There have been a few very attractive women who either told me directly or I found out from 3rd party source, that had crushes on me and was wishing I made a move. One I found out as she was moving out of state, another was an employee and I am not going to risk my career over that, and the third although attractive had some serious baggage. Now do I agree that if I would grow some theoretical balls, the lack of physical balls wouldn't be an issue, Absolutely! And now I am mentally ok with not having any balls but the fear I have now is that I am 32 and have never had sex, hell I have never even madeout before. I am sure you all can recall your 1st times and how awkward that was. As a teenager that awkwardness is ok because it is probably one of her 1st times too.As a 32 year old, it is very unlikely it will be hers too.

So I am afraid of being the real life version of the movie "40 year old virgin" So I have come up with a plan to get some of this early awkwardness out of the way and to become more comfortable with the sexual side of things.

Step1: go to strip clubs. Get comfortable around a naked woman. Talk to women when they are being paid to pretend you are interesting. This can be kinda a confidence booster. Then of course get comfortable touching, squeezing, and slapping a naked woman. Maybe even get some extras to get use to a woman touching you. Although the 1st time i went last week there was no extras to be found or I am not good/smart enough to know how to get them.

Step 2: Get on Tinder. This is suppose to be a dating app where the main go is just hooking up.So this way I am getting there really clumsy 1st times out of the way with people I wouldn't normally interact with on a daily basis.The thing with this is that I won't be able to put up an actual pic of myself because I have employees that use this app and I am in a big company and I am in a position in this company that I really don't need that spread around. So I was thinking about making the profile pics be a bunch of pics of pairs of balls. like a pair of tennis balls, a pair of golf balls, or a pair of bowling balls. i would make this profile very much about me not having any balls since that is not a well known thing at work and woman would be curious. For example does anything come out when he orgasms? And there is only 1 way to find that out. Then maybe a few will give me some sympathy lays, I'm not too proud for that.

Step 3: Start meeting woman in real life. Go on date with woman I would actually want to have a relationship with and not be worried that I would be a huge disappointment in bed.

Well that is the plan I have made. Feel free to comment how idiotic it is. Or if you have some advice to improve the plan or if you have a better plan, I am all ears.
Sep 2013
Jul '17
7
44/3
12/7
42
May 28, 2017
35
Yesterday
When I take a new guy to a Strip Club with me, I always give him some standard advice. None of this is meant to be a lecture or to imply I have a better way of doing things than you do -- a lot of you tuscl guys have your own styles and ways of doing things, that work better for you than anything I can advise. But for brand new guys, some "here's how to act" can really increase their fun at the club. So, without further ado, here are my "rules", and the general speech the new guys get on the way to the club:

1. Don't be an asshole
2. Don't be a little bitch

That's it! You're welcome. Thanks for the VIP, founder!

What's that you say? You'd like me to elaborate a little? Well sure, if you insist! Let's start off with the easy one first:

**** Don't Be an Asshole ****

Amazing how some guys go full retard when they get to the strip club. I find the best way to act is to boot up in "behave like an adult, and remember the strippers are people, treat them that way".

- If she comes over to you, and you're not interested, don't string her along ... this is her job, time is money for her. Assholes waste strippers' time.

- If you call her over, she hangs out with you for 20 minutes, and after that 20 minutes, you decide you don't really want to get dancers from her anymore, slip her a $10 or $20 before you send her on her way.

- Every club will have some standard of expected touching, but if you go beyond that, seek consent. I personally advise seeking explicit verbal consent, but some guys prefer implicit consent -- that is, they move their hand very slowly towards ground zero, giving her plenty of time to intercept and move it away; if she doesn't, they assume she's okay with it. Not my style but whatever.

- If a girl comes over to you and you don't want a dance from her, don't wave your hand and turn away, as if she's a piece of shit. 20 seconds of conversation before you decline won't kill you.

- Don't get too personal with your questions. I know many guys do this by accident ... they just get caught up in the nightclub atmosphere, and as with a "civilian", start asking personal questions about where she lives, etc. This is NOT a nightclub, she is NOT a dating prospect, and personal questions aren't just annoying, they are a matter of serious personal safety for her. Have fun but don't lose the plot ... she's a stripper, she has every reason to stay anonymous, stay away from asking her compromising questions.

**** Don't be a Little Bitch ****

This one seems to be a little more difficult to follow. My definition of a little bitch is: if you are intimidated by a 22 year old girl in her underwear, you're a little bitch. The girls can smell weakness, and once they can tell you're a little bitch, you can be in for some rough, trip-ruining treatment. So, here's some ways to be a little bitch, or more importantly, how to avoid it.

- If a stripper comes over to you and you don't want a dance, here's the best thing to say. "No thanks, but thank you anyway". You don't owe her an explanation. You don't need to be passive-aggressive ("maybe later"), you don't need to invent excuses ("I'm waiting for someone", "I'm out of money"). It's not that those excuses don't "work", in the sense that they will lead to the desired effect in that the dancer will go away. But, two problems: 1. Being passive aggressive or so intimidated you need to lie to her, puts you in a defensive little-bitch mindset from the start. "No thanks" is what confident people say. People who are scared make up excuses. A bold, in-control mindset really does impact how you think and how you're perceived by others. 2. The girls KNOW that you're lying about waiting for someone or that "maybe later" means you're too scared to say "no". And among the more sadistic ones, that's their cue to turn on the high hustle -- and this can lead to some really unpleasant interactions.

- Speaking of unpleasant interactions, a common one is: You say "maybe later", she starts asking you questions "Why not?", you answer, she asks you more questions ("don't you like black girls?" "why are you here if you don't like dances?") all meant to either 1. strong-arm you into getting more dances, or 2. humiliate you so she can feel better about herself. I don't even sit there and meekly answer her questions and let her dictate the conversation -- this pattern by the girls is ALWAYS aggression. Often, I'll simply shut it down -- repeat "no thanks" without answering the question, etc. Sometimes, I'll engage her in conversation, but here's my rule: I NEVER answer any of her questions, instead I turn it around and she can answer mine. (Her: Am I not your type? Me: What do you think? Who do you think my type is?)... the more aggressive girls realize what I'm doing and walk away; the less aggressive girls will sit there and meekly answer my questions for a while, and if I think she's fun, well now I have a new friend. But sitting there and playing into her game, answering question after question from a girl you're not interested in, is being a little bitch.

- You don't have to tip. I tip, without being asked, for EXTRAORDINARY service. If a stripper asks for a tip and I don't want to tip her, my usual response: "Sorry I don't tip" I say it respectfully, but with eye contact -- I feel I don't owe her any more explanation. Sometimes, if I'm feeling magnanimous, I'll add in, "Sorry, I don't tip, but show my appreciation by buying more dances, I'll let you know if I'm up for that". That's it. A lot of the passive aggressive guys have policies like, "if she asks for a tip, I'll tip her... but then I'll never do dances with her again!" By now, you know the view of I have of that -- it is the living embodiment of being a little bitch. You're so scared of her you're rewarding her when you didn't think she deserved it, and then somehow think she's going to realize that you're avoiding her because of it?

- Exact same advice for tipping, goes for buying drinks. I personally think buying drinks and food for the girls is easily the best deal in the strip club, but if it's not your thing, any pressure you put on yourself about "looking bad because I'm not buying her a drink" is just your inner bitch speaking.

**** Conclusions****

Through all of this, I think it's important to stay respectful, smiling, relaxed, and in control. Do so, and you'll be respected and treated how you'd like, and far less likely to run into trip-killing negative experiences. Some of the girls are bat-shit crazy and will go off on you no matter what you do. But in general, if you're neither an asshole nor a little bitch, this maximizes your chances of fun interactions and minimizes the chances of the really horrible ones that leave a bad taste in your mouth. And remember the advice of the greatest actor of our time. To paraphrase: "Be nice. Tell her no thanks, but be nice. Don't tip her, but be nice. Be nice... until it's time not to be nice."
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