They are doing similar things in med school, such as making Step 1 of the national boards into a PASS/FAIL exam. The reason they did it is because med students have been spending inordinate amounts of time studying board review books from day one in med school instead of being focused on their classes, much to the chagrin of professors and administrators. In other words, med students for the past 30 or so years have been brainwashed into thinking the only thing that makes a good doctor is board scores, when actual doctors know it's intangibles like work ethic, bedside manner, empathy, and "think outside the box" innovative mental skills that can't be taught in a review book.
The stated reason is as expected, that its an effort to increase diversity as standardized testing has long been regarded as biased. The validity of IMO is questionable at best, not that I've done extensive study on the matter but I remember from my school days that those test scores for SAT, LSAT, GMAT, etc all aligned fairly well with success. At least academic success.
I'd guess the real reasons is to either appear to be supporting diversity and/or have an excuse to accept students that have money but can't pass admissions tests. I'm not talking about kids who can pay tuition, I'm talking about kids with parents who will be the kind of boosters that get buildings named after them. No one wants to be the next Aunt Becky, but schools still want that sweet sweet cash from wealthy parents with dumb kids. Reducing objective barriers to entry allows admissions to use their own judgment and admit big dollar dummies.
"As far as medical standards. The bar can't get lower"
Says someone whose life was just saved less than a year ago by medical professionals who underwent over 10,000 hours of training before they could operate on their own.
If only qualified applicants who were willing to go through a rigorous application process were admitted, there wouldn't be enough students to pay for diversity officers, title ix coordinators and tuition waivers for athletes. They need to admit any warm body with a checkbook to pay for this stuff.
You guys realize this is the admission test that’s one part of the admissions process to law school? You also have to have made grades in college. The students still have to take 3 years of law school classes, graduate and pass the bar. Or if we’re talking med school, 4 years of classes, pass the medical boards a complete a residency. Scores on LSATs have fuck all to do with whether someone is qualified to be a lawyer.
Yes it’s true there’s more to predicting the success of a lawyer/doctor than test scores, but research (conducted by Marxist university professors) clearly show a correction between test scores and GPA
IF you wanna gave you bypass surgery done by a doctor with a 2,7 GPA who was only admitted to med school because of diversity requirements than more more power to you
Test scores are biased, sort of. As a person with a couple of masters degrees, I’ve had to take these tests. The dirty little secret is that unless you are a genius or a moron, the quality and therefore cost of your test prep drives your test score. If you can afford a top exam prep course, you’re going to do great, and that’s with average intelligence. But it will cost you. Also, most of these exams are more about test taking approach than intelligence or domain specific knowledge, and that’s what the prep courses are teaching you.
To an extent this process indicates determination and basic intelligence… if you are willing to make the sacrifice of time and treasure, and not a moron, you will get a great score and get into whatever university you want, and maybe that shows you will word hard in school. Also, if you’re a fucking genius, you’re going the ace it anyway. Fair enough.
But it’s not really about intelligence, except for at the extreme ends of the scale.
Standardized tests have biases that can preclude underprivileged demographics from scoring as highly as their more privileged counterparts.
With that being said, I was blessed to have the privilege of being a naturally good test taker, especially when it comes to standardized tests (my ACT scores are literally what got me into college, as my cumulative high school gpa was mediocre at best, and that's being generous). My skillset was very applicable for the LSAT which I did fantastic on.
However, it kind of pisses me off that some universities are now accepting other standardized tests for law applicants that do not pertain to law or the ability to interpret it, and these other tests do not have anything to do with interpreting language, analytics, etc. It seems like a slap in the face to the entire legal profession and what *most people* have had to work on to become law students. Not to mention, we have bozos like KIM K who is apparently becoming a lawyer, without actually going to law school, and has probably already paid someone to take the bar for her. Dumb fucking twat.
How do we know Kim K is dumb? Her dad was a big time lawyer, so seem plausible she´s got a predisposition to be a lawyer. Maybe some people get famous for being famous through sheer dumb luck. But maybe not all or even most.
The AMA limits the number of medical schools, to keep the income of MDs high. So medical care is expensive, and there´s a shortage of doctors, especially in rural areas. The ABA doesn´t try to limit the number of law schools, but that has led to people graduating from law school (with lots of debt) but not being able to work as a lawyer ( https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/median-us-lawyer-income-dropped-over-past-two-decades-economists-find-2022-08-23/ ). So it´s not necessarily doing applicants a favor to not try to identify those who are most likely to be successful lawyers. I would guess they´ve just simply found that the LSAT doesn´t predict will who will be an effective lawyer. It also seems to be a factor that many law schools see a need to favor applicants who are committed to doing a lot of pro bono or reduced fee work.
Ilb the ama is largest or second largest lobbying group. In addition to artificially inflating doctors salaries by artificially lowering the number of doctors, they also have done other things like outlaw midwives. The concept of licensing artificially inflates wages, normally you would have both options available and people choose whether they want to pay the premium for the licensed professional
Anyway icee you want socialized free healthcare so it serves you right if you get some dumbfuck doctor
I have mixed feelings about this. Some of us just don't do that well on standardized testing for whatever reason. I'll add that I'm so white I'm practically translucent. I did not do all that great on the SAT. I didn't bomb it by any means, but I scored around the 80th percentile, which is not considered all that impressive by top schools. Nonetheless, I got accepted to a well regarded university largely on the basis of my grades, activities etc. and then proceeded over the next 4 years running laps academically around many other students who had much higher SAT scores then I did.
The LSAT was a repeat, I scored around the 80th percentile. I got into a Top 25 law school based largely on my undergraduate grades and recommendations that then again spent the next 3 years getting much higher grades than many of my fellow classmates who had much higher LSAT scores. For whatever reasons, there are some of us who standardized tests undersell.
That said, I also understand that if you remove standardized tests, you subject incoming applicants to the increased subjective biases of the admissions department, which is is own set of problems. Hence, my having mixed feelings on the subject.
"Your racist and misogynistic assumption that minorit8es and women can't pass tests is false."
Hey stupid fuck, I usually don't engage with you, but it's you who made the racist and misogynistic assumption that they can't pass the test. My assertion is/was that stupid spoiled children of wealthy parents can't pass tests, but that the universities want an avenue to admit them anyway. Hence the Aunt Becky reference. As you may recall Lori McLaughlin, who is famous for playing Aunt Becky on the sitcom Full House, was caught paying a firm to take admissions tests for her child to get them admitted into more prestigious schools. Removing the test as required criteria would allow greater latitude in the process from the university admissions, removing the requirement to cheat and the whole pesky legal process that followed. The diversity angle is simply a red herring for the simpletons and SJW's.
I'm not really weighing in on whether the tests are actually good predictors of potential academic success, have inherent biases, or other questions.
PS. I'm not talking about a literal fish, a red herring in this case is something that is or is intended to be misleading or distracting. You can use an online dictionary if you need help with words like misleading or distracting.
As someone with undergraduate and graduate degrees from these "ultra elite" schools, I've seen and participated in the process.
They're called "standardized tests" because it's the only way they can judge verbal/mathematical/whatever aptitude regardless of your curriculum or amount of grade inflation at your high school. And they matter a lot more at the middle tier of schools where admission and even merit scholarships are all about your GPA and SAT scores.
Anywhere, more is always better. At my top school, they ranked your academic potential (mostly GPA, but class rank and SAT scores in there) very finely--from a 5 (borderline) to a 1 (a top scholar, summa cum laude potential). But SAT was just one component of it. However, the truly elite schools could admit only valedictorians and perfect SAT scores if they wanted; instead, you need to differentiate yourself on other things--extracurricular or athletic achievement (which is why some parents drive their kids to esoteric sports), or increasingly being of a disadvantaged group. The latter is less out of a grand social mission than buying penance for wrongs they've already committed. Harvard, for one, is a shitty and arrogant local citizen with a messiah complex.
Grad schools, it really depends. I'm not a lawyer, but I hear law school admission is very much about your GPA and LSAT scores. Business school, once you've reached a certain GMAT level (typically around 700) you've "checked the box." When I was talking to a coworker who graduated from my top choice business school and told her my GMAT score (I'm a demon at standardized testing, though I hope I'm done for good with them), she said "they're going to think you're a dork." That is, their thought process is "OK, this guy can more than handle the workload. What else can he do?"
Standardized test prep is not hard. As a former Kaplan instructor, there is no secret sauce. We didn't do anything that a practice test book from the library or a question bank online couldn't do. Do 10 practice tests under actual test conditions, and you'll know the material and be confident enough for whatever they throw at you. I don't know why they make standardized test prep harder than that.
Whether academic success correlates with skill as a doctor, lawyer, or manager, is a different question entirely.
"IF you wanna gave you bypass surgery done by a doctor with a 2,7 GPA who was only admitted to med school because of diversity requirements than more more power to you"
I can understand your point, but people like Ben Carson and Mehmet Oz scored well on their board exams in med school and looked how fucked up they turned out to be.
Wow Iceefag you're amazing, you seem to be saying after spending time in prison the reason someone was put in prison never happened, wow that's some convoluted logic.
You should be working with Steven Hawkings on quantum theory, your talents are wasted here on a strip club forum.
Ben Carson is fucked up? Lmao what a smelly little cunt. Ben Carson actually invented the procedures used when doing heart surgery on children in the womb.
Standards are not lowered to create diversity; they are disposed of. If you cannot do well on a standardized test you should have studied and learned the material.
To me, dropping the LSAT requirement is simply another side effect to the regression of society. We've thrown the gates of America wide open so that any fucking asshole in the world can just walk right over the border. Apparently US residency, and ultimately citizenship, is now the "right" of anyone who wants it, regardless of their qualifications or ability to contribute anything.
So why the hell shouldn't acceptance to law school be a "right" also, even to those less qualified? And watch carefully... as the attrition/failure rate among law students starts to increase you will see a movement to lighten the rigorous course of study, in the interest of "fairness". And obviously, bar exams will then need to be adjusted accordingly, because no one will be able to pass it.
Of course this only applies to the United States. While we're dumbing everything down, adversaries like China, Russia and Iran will be increasing their educational standards. They know attacking the US with bombs and armies is not a good option. But a smart country can take over a nation of imbeciles with very little effort at all.
"Ben Carson and Mehmet Oz scored well on their board exams in med school and looked how fucked up they turned out to be"
Recurrent TUSCL troll Trucidos aka VH_Kicks aka Yabba-Jabba aka Jonathan999 aka caesarsghost aka thick-5-incher is calling a former Johns Hopkins Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery, and an eminent heart transplant surgeon "fucked up."
Oh, the irony.
"Ben Carson actually invented the procedures used when doing heart surgery on children in the womb"
Carson thinks evolution and the Big Bang are fabricated hoaxes by the Chinese Communists. So much for his "science background" being legit.
He's also a house Negro for a pathological liar like Beijing Don. He came in from the fields and toe'd the line for massa!
"Apparently US residency, and ultimately citizenship, is now the "right" of anyone who wants it, regardless of their qualifications or ability to contribute anything"
Your white ancestors from Europe didn't do anything special to get into this country, asswipe. They just came over at the right time when we needed young bodies to work in factories and chop down trees. Stealing land from Native Indians and owning African slaves does not meet any special qualification to be an American citizen. It just means you believe in a fake book of lies called the Holy Bible which brainwashes you into thinking your Sky Daddy gives you "manifest destiny" to take anything you want from brown skinned people by force like a band of thieves.
The United States of America was founded by white nationalist Christian fundamentalist terrorists. Yes, I'm white so I can say these things with credence.
Hold on??? So what sorta baseline standard is there gonna be? Look I am no legal expert nor wannabe lawyer obviously but wtf dropping a test that weeds out dunces sounds like such a bad idea!!!
"So what sorta baseline standard is there gonna be?"
There won't be a baseline standard, except for college grades which is highly subjective when comparing different schools and majors.
Law schools and med schools are going back to the "old days" when you got in because you had connections and greased the right people. It's mainly being done to help more minorities become doctors and lawyers, but it also means more dumb white kids of wealthy parents now have a pathway in. Sadly, this means silver spooned nitwits like Trump and his kids will be cracking your grandkids' skulls open in 60 years and pretending they know brain surgery after get all D's in science and math.
"The United States of America was founded by white nationalist Christian fundamentalist terrorists. Yes, I'm white so I can say these things with credence."
No, you're just being a provocative jackass. The Founding Fathers were Christians but deists--"fundamentalism" didn't exist back then.
Go away, Trucidos.
@Blah
It appears that the standard is that there's no standard, when it comes to lawyers that's a good thing, there are too fucking many lawyers and most of them are unqualified anyway.
Most don't admit it, but they don't actually add any value, they just deduct fees and are a major cause of inflation themselves. I don't think the average consumer realizes there is approx 15% surcharge added to everything we need in America because of the ABA.
I would never ever study to be a lawyer even if I was into the idea of lots of years of school...
American lawyers are largely useless outside the US.
If you become an engineer, electrician, or doctor you are needed worldwide and language issues could be overlooked tbh if you had to move all of a sudden/escape a country. Not that the US is that bad, but a lot of countries are that bad.
"Founding Fathers were Christians but deists--"fundamentalism" didn't exist back then"
Christian fundamentalism exists on two basic tenets --- 1) whites are superior to all races and 2) women and brown skin people are to be owned like slaves
I could literally post 500 Bible quotes to support my argument, dippy.
@Trucidos, it's laughable how your definition of Christian fundamentalism has nothing to do with Christianity, only the modern progressive racial psychodrama playing out in your little pee-wee brains.
Go educate yourself.
A few things...
The ABA decision only states that it would no longer require that law schools use the LSAT to admit students, but well under 10% of law schools surveyed in response stated that they'd drop the testing requirement in response to the ABA decision. So, this isn't going away anytime soon.
The ABA decision is not final (also, it's not proposed to go into effect until 2025). The rule change will go before the ABA’s House of Delegates in February. The House can reject any proposed changes to the law school accreditation standards before they become final. They have the final say. The House of Delegates thwarted the same rule change in 2018. This isn't a new thing.
Standardized tests are a double-edged sword at any educational level. While there needs to be some litmus test for effective education, there's also the problem that people study harder to pass the test than accumulate real knowledge.
5 incher, even if carson has those beliefs it doesnt effect his ability as a surgeon.
“
Your white ancestors from Europe didn't do anything special to get into this country, asswipe. They just came over at the right time when we needed young bodies to work in factories and chop down trees. Stealing land from Native Indians and owning African slaves does not meet any special qualification to be an American citizen. It just means you believe in a fake book of lies called the Holy Bible which brainwashes you into thinking your Sky Daddy gives you "manifest destiny" to take anything you want from brown skinned people by force like a band of thieves.”
The problem is even if they didnt do anything to enter the country thats much different than the modern tactic of having open borders plus tons of socialized things. Greedy people want both open borders and also socialIzed healthcare, education and more which is nonsense. How many people do you think would willingly come here if they weren’t guaranteed any free benefits for it?
It was like the top 1% who owned slaves, because they were rich enough to. The slavery argument is also nonsense considering you have all these people complaining about slavery unless its Chinese slaves producing nikes or apple products then it becomes more acceptable. And it’s laughable you BLM scum will talk about how property Isnt more valuable than human life yet will spend money on luxury goods that aren’t necessities. That money could have been used to save lives yet you chose to buy $200 shoes with it instead of $40 shoes.
5 incher laughable Christianity has nothing to do with race. Why do you think theres black and Arab Christians?
Also Christianity promotes monogamy, so at best you could argue only Mormonism is more unequal with men vs women but there’s nothing similar to slavery. Slavery was actually used historically as a means of punishment and means to pay off debts, google and Wikipedia the history of slavery. In modern times you have odd kinds of racist people who will only complain of slavery in reference to specific races, sometimes even buying products from companies who use slaves.
@BTE, you're making the mistake of thinking the small-dicked one is saying anything in good faith. He's a malcontent troll from Pittsburgh who only needs these words: "Yinz need get fucked, jagoff." (in that ugly dialect)
But yes, simple math dictates one cannot have an expansive welfare state and mass immigration. They are coming here, because in there own words, Biden has opened the border. Businesses also love mass immigration because importing loads of low-wage labor depresses wages; even Bernie Sanders admits this.
BLM is where rich white people pay racial penance. It's why they pay $30,000 an hour to have lightweight "intellectuals" like Ibram Kendi speak. A fool and their money are soon parted.
@BTE, also, the small-dicked one has no grasp of the history of Christianity, if he thinks fundamentalism (which didn't exist in the Founding Fathers' days) is the foundation of the country. A quick Google search dates fundamentalism to the late 19th century.
It's also funny because black (79%) and brown Latino Americans (77%) are the most Christian-identifying group vs. whites at 70% and Asians at 34%.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/christians/by/racial-and-ethnic-composition/
The pimping, pandering, woman-beating, woman-manipulating, lying, thieving piece of shit proves the saying "it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt."
^ That was a cue to stop embarrassing yourself.
Smoke another blunt to forget what a piece of shit you are. But all the weed in Jamaica couldn't do that.
"Businesses also love mass immigration because importing loads of low-wage labor depresses wages"
That's why 99% of all farmers who get busted using illegals for cheap labor are registered Republicans. Your side is the Party of Hypocrisy and Lies, and you love proving it yourself every time the Feds bust a chicken or fish processing facility and reveal the owner is a white schmuck who donated $20,000 to China Don to help "close the borders to murderers and rapists".
Just like every piece of shit Repuke politician eventually gets caught paying for a mistress to get an abortion.
^ I always wondered what would happen if a dog fucked a monkey and had offspring. You'd be born. Right and being a democratic party member you think the woman should be killed and not have an abortion like Ted Kennedy would handle it.
"pick up an economics textbook. But be warned, it might make a conservative out of you"
Pick up any history book, Tetra-Fagg, and it will turn your stomach and then convert you into a Mighty Democrat.
99% of all the murdering and stealing of lands committed in the past 2000 years has been done by right-wing whites.
^ Laughably incorrect. Ever heard of the Mongols, dumbass? The Turks? The Aztecs? Or is it only when whitey does it that it registers in your little woke brains?
No group that says men can get pregnant can lecture anyone about facts.
Go away, Trucidos. Only a matter of time until your ass gets deleted again.
"Ever heard of the Mongols? The Turks? The Aztecs?"
For every human the Mongols or Turks killed, ole whitey killed at least a 1000 more.
We can do this all day, Tetra-Fagg. I make you look more and more foolish the harder you cling on to your Eurocentrist lies and propaganda.
"We can do this all day, Tetra-Fagg"
Naah, you can't give one citation in support of that because that never happened. Typical of the modern "American" leftist who thinks history began and ended with whitey.
The Mongols wiped out what was then 11% of the world's population.
Just go away, Trucidos. You'll get deleted here soon enough anyways.
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