When an opportunity for passionate debate devolves into useless feuding

Wednesday, September 21, 2022 8:49 PM
I know I am one of the more combative posters on TUSCL. I take a level of pride in this. I do not attack people without cause, I do so because we have staked out opposing partisan views. When I go to feuding with another poster, it is because I have important principles which must be defended. I do not draw first blood, but once it has begun, I never, ever stop. I know this about myself. I also know when to talk away, when someone is not interested in trying to win a debate of ideas, no matter how bitterly passionate. There are plenty of third-rate whores, demented old bastards, and ignorant liberal windbags on TUSCL that need to be taken down. That's why I go after them. A supervisor once told me a story about a wolverine that killed a moose. He asked me why would the wolverine kill the moose? What possible gain would killing a moose provide the wolverine? He was talking about the many unyielding takedowns I performed around the workplace to enforce discipline and productivity. I looked him dead in the eye and told him the wolverine must have had an important point to make. It would be another 18 months before I saw a promotion. However, I am seriously dismayed that no one who saw Founder's message about censorship ending all discussion seems to have understood Founder's message about censorship cancelling all discussion. How many of us want White to police themselves with regards to Neo-Nazis and white supremacists? How many people want black to police themselves for violent criminals and gang activities? How many people want latinos to police themselves for drug smuggling, human, trafficking, and cartel associations? How many people want police to police themselves for racism and brutality? How many want the Muslim community to police itself for radical Islam? Why won't TUSCL police itself and ostracize the trolls? It is wrong to devalue white people for the neo-Nazis. It is wrong to aggressively police all blacks as criminals. It is wrong to think all latinos are illegals and drug mules. It is wrong to suppress Muslim worship for fear of radical Islamists. It is wrong to censor conversations on TUSCL because we have trolls. All message boards have trolls. Most message boards have moderators to censor the trolls, and any other posters or viewpoints they do not like. We congregate and post here because there are no moderators or censorship. We can end the trolling by ignoring them. They will come back in another form and we will ignore them again. There will always be spirited, passionate, and bitter partisan debate on here. It is fun to come here and blow off steam participating in that debate. But watching Skibum, Tetradon, nicespice, CMI and others just go back and forth endlessly with the trolls is not fun or constructive or worthwhile. Hopefully Founder's next update will include another forum called the War Room, where we can boot the de-railed portions of threads we create. They can continue their immature back and forth in there while we debate the finer points of LDKing in gym shorts v golf pants.

41 comments

Gammanu95, you have some extreme views which I do not agree with. But I have never found you to be one who goes into useless name calling and ad hominem. You present your views and let that be the end of it, even when others disagree. I respect you for this. But there are others on this board who can do little other than name calling and ad hominem, and just because someone else disagrees with them. They refuse to talk about the topic at hand, but instead insist on making attacks on the other poster(s), making a negative meta-narrative, a conversation about the conversation. SJG Red Hot Chili Peppers - Scar Tissue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJj5-lubeM
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
Gammanu95 I think your debates are based on personal experience and useful insight. I know you are passionate about the things you believe in. There is nothing wrong with that sort of debate. It is good for us to express our views freely in this forum.
Cashman1234
2 years ago
Thank you, Cashman, but it's not about me. I acknowledged my penchant for fighting while pointing out the dangers of censoring trolls instead of ignoring them.
gammanu95
2 years ago
^ Agreed! But there are some who will not do that, they just go to an hominem and personal attacks, the negative meta-narratives. SJG https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=7137 Kansas City School of Rock What is Hip https://youtu.be/eQp1RJtCn2U?t=4321
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
Let me know when it's my turn to anoint myself arbiter of what is really important .......
skibum609
2 years ago
My only opinion on this is I like the fact that the creep has posted twice in this tread oblivious that he's ignored by OP. Lol
TheeOSU
2 years ago
Skibum, you are so incredibly dense, even for a lawyer. Your entertainment and engagement of the trolls is one of the things that keeps them around. Them being around its why others push for moderation and censorship.
gammanu95
2 years ago
^ gammanu95 is Correct! SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
I join ski (which doesn’t happen often) in standing in line for my kick at being the self righteous king of tuscl. And gam you should really elect yourself king of the tuscl domain for life before everyone notices how arrogant you appear to be.
623
2 years ago
I don't know and don't really care who 623 is, but you appear to be another bonehead who does not understand how to read and digest an essay. I am not sure how to make this simple enough for you to understand. The point is that we, the posters, should not be asking authority, i.e Founder, to censor other posters. We have been given the ignore feature so that we can censor ourselves. If we choose not to use the ignore feature, and choose to engage and bicker with the trolls, we also choose to give the trolls what they want and reason to stick around. It is that simple. Anyone who wants another poster censored, with some truly irredeemable exceptions, should themselves be censored. Cancel culture and the censorship of differing opinions is the worst offense to commit on a discussion forum created for the purposes of sharing opinions. I do not want to participate in a society or a discussion board that exists as a giant echo chamber.
gammanu95
2 years ago
Trolls exist on every platform possible Gam, so the idea they stay around because of me, or others is a non-starter. I've chatted on AFF for 19 years and no matter what anyone does to the trolls they always exist, recognition or not. On another note, you owe 623 an apology for making him side with me....how dare you lol. In reality anyone wanting to get rid of the trolling without any censorship at all will request that everyone be required to provide an actual governmental I.D. so we know who everyone is. The problem is anonymity and nothing else. I'm locatable since my on-line ID for this is the same as poker and fantasy sports and hiking and golf and politics and on the Guardian; well you get the idea
skibum609
2 years ago
Wow, a lucid rebuttal from Skibum. It must be the apocalypse. There is no way to get rid of the trolls -noone said there was- but we should be looking for ways to minimize their activity and impact. For example, there are two dogs. One is very motivated by positive reinforcement, the other is motivated by dog biscuits. If we remove dog biscuits, one dog will stop performing. If we remove positive reinforcement, both will still perform for biscuits. Some trolls will stay on here because they have no place to go, but their enthusiasm and activity will be reduced and muted. Some trolls will leave entirely if we refrain from interacting with them and responding to their provocations. I am proposing removing the motivation and controlling what we can. Moreover, it is plainly foolish to scream that these trolls must be censored and doxxed and banned, because that reinforces and rewards them more than any rational rebuttal argument ever could. Skibum loves to bicker with trolls, that's more than 50% of why he is here. But Tetradon and the others who demand they be taken down are giving them the best possible reinforcement for trolling. If they are so offensive, why not ignore them? Tetra said one of the trolls is commenting on this thread and I have him ignored. This is true. I do not know who is writing what but I am reading fewer comments than are counted in the thread thumbnail. I do not care what some people have to say, whether they are toothless old men screaming into their microphone or public library computer desk jockeys. They do not matter. While Founder argues that there are many negative impacts from a two-way block, it remains the most effective tool for minimizing the disruption of earnest user's experiences. Having said that, Founder should at least recognize the trolls and prevent them from being VIP or Verified Members. Those rooms were created for the purpose of minimizing the disruption of trolls, but most of the trolls are VIP and/or verified. It defeats the purpose without enforcement.
gammanu95
2 years ago
Because ignoring anyone makes threads impossible to follow. Founder has "censored" things very much like what I brought to his attention before. No idea why it triggered a bitch fit.
Tetradon
2 years ago
Begging for censorship behind peoples backs is bitch shit. And no tolerance for bigots
Icee Loco (asshole)
2 years ago
wah said the little homosexual bottom Icee, wah.
skibum609
2 years ago
Tetra, I have had several obvious offenders on ignore for at least a couple years and it is very easy to follow threads so not sure where that comment is coming from. Ski has suggested what have thought for years would fix all social media. Eliminate all anonymity from this site and all social media for that matter. Suddenly posts will get more civil and, with the Alex Jones case in mind, more truthful.
623
2 years ago
"Begging for censorship behind peoples backs is bitch shit." Behind people's backs? Lol that's why I created a nearly hundred post thread calling the parties out. You know what's bitch shit? Hitting women. Getting them addicted to drugs. Stealing from grocery stores. The level of self pity to threaten suicide and post about it here because your girl left you for a low level weed dealer.
Tetradon
2 years ago
Yawn. Every mature monger website goes through this. Nature of the beast. If you’re not mature enough to just ignore & move on, you’re not “the solution” that’s just your ego manifesting. There’s always going to be A-holes. I stand with the solution that the website shouldn’t censor or dictate “safe spaces”, it’s up to each individual to decide what he wants to see or engage in.
RiskA
2 years ago
gammanu95, Some of our members want friendly debate. Even though the parties may feel very strongly about something, they can try to keep the debate civil and respectful. But some of our members, I could list their names, do not want this. They want to prevent civil discussion and debate. So they post these personal attacks and negative meta-narrative, conversation about the conversation, in order to stop it. We have very little moderation on this board, but people are expected to moderate themselves or it won't work. SJG School of Rock AllStars perform "Highway Star" by Deep Purple https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oGjZRe1i3g
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
Fuck! I read this whole thread and didn't learn anything new about where to get a quality lap dance from a hot little spinner.
SalaoLikeSantiago
2 years ago
Well, people can talk about that, and they do. But people also talk about a lot of other stuff, and sometimes when there could be constructive discussions, civility has broken down. I think this is what our OP is trying to address. SJG School of Rock AllStar Students perform a cover of "Carry On Wayward Son" by Kansas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRneFCTuiuQ
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
News flash. Getting a quality dance from the girls of your dreams only requires open your wallet wide enough.
623
2 years ago
^ Respectfully disagree. I want a connection (in my mind) and money is just one factor in that. As fucked up as it may sound most dances on whom I spend money are people I spend time with after the dances as well.
skibum609
2 years ago
^who are you, and what did you do with the real skibum609?
gammanu95
2 years ago
Gee Gammanu you have a short memory, but you went way out of bounds posting shit on my reviews, I don't care at all about your politics, I don't start with you because you don't start with me any more, it's a simple thing to ignore people you don't care for if they do the same, I don't consider the two way block to be censorship at all, and it was a good thing, we don't need to fight over differing opinions, we just don't see them.
twentyfive
2 years ago
Lmao GAM I am a reflection of my surroundings.
skibum609
2 years ago
Interesting, skibum. You're actually likeable in your happy place. Twentyfive, on the other hand, not so much. Ever. I thought you had me on ignore. You said I was permanently ignored, and we were all happier, but you just can't leave it alone. I am so deep into your psyche that you just HAVE to follow me. And you reignite our feud with your typical one-sided bullshit and lies. You weren't starting with me because you ignored me. You ignored me because I always won. Shitposting each others' reviews is a perfect example! You started it! You drew first blood, you did it first to me, so I gave it back to you. What did you do? You went whining to Founder like a little bitch and tried to get him to kick me off the board. All I had to do was send him the reviews and dates when YOU did it first, and he reinstated my VIP no questions asked. You can dish it out, but you can't take it. So why did you take me off ignore? You took me off ignore and you start fighting with me over opinions. You took me off ignore and started spouting lies. You took me off ignore, and here we are again. Fuck, you are just the dumbest bastard here. Put me back on ignore so I don't have to waste any more time beating you.
gammanu95
2 years ago
Quality Dance? Buying Dances is a Chump's Game, a gimmick. Select the girl that you want to open up to you, to be giving it up for you. <img src="https://i.etsystatic.com/35284413/r/il/ca7ce7/3899762089/il_1140xN.3899762089_mie7.jpg"> https://www.etsy.com/listing/1226800109/velvet-strappy-bodysuit-lingerie?click_key=033547e5c04558a2f616af76b363043e60998377%3A1226800109&click_sum=c17605d9&external=1&rec_type=cs&ref=landingpage_similar_listing_top-5 SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
I started what exactly, do you remember writing in my props a little screed calling me a pedophile, or did you forget that, how about calling me and Nina porch monkeys, you're tone deaf, and stupid, I posted because you always act like you're so above it all, yet you start shit with people intentionally, don't act so innocent you liar, for the record you posted somehow on your own review a some phony shit just to tell founder I did something which I never did, somehow you hacked my user name and posted that shit yourself, you need to come correct boy, we all know you're a self righteous bigot.
twentyfive
2 years ago
Wait, this is too good. Your claim is that I hacked your account and used your account to shitpost my own reviews, simply so I would have justification for retaliating in kind? LMFAO! Thank you, that made me weekend. That is the funniest, most pathetic, bullshit excuse ever posted on this site. Talk about tone deaf, stupid, and bigoted. You need to look in the mirror old man. I know your filled with self-loathing and hate yourselfand the way you wasted your life and your sad, lonely, little retirement, but COME ON! Use that spare time to come up with something better than that.
gammanu95
2 years ago
gammanu95, I agree with you. But you are trying to talk to people who do not believe in free speech and who act like imbeciles. SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
@Gammanu, I'll admit, I like busting trolls, and when someone is being obnoxious enough, I'm not above a low blow. How else did Cacaplop finally get flushed? If you want me banned for reporting someone else's sociopathic behavior to Founder, you're free to message him yourself. I don't know why you've spoken my name so many times on this thread, but I've never had a problem with you. Oh, and a lot of people don't seem to get what "free speech" means. What part of "Congress shall make no law abridging..." relates to a private internet forum? Founder could up and delete me just like anyone else. His prerogative. But I consider myself one of the better reviewers here. Keeping and privileging trolls over content creators would say a lot about the kind of board he wants.
Tetradon
2 years ago
^ gammanu95 is correct: "opportunity for passionate debate devolves into useless feuding" SJG
san_jose_guy
2 years ago
Bump You describe your self perfectly
twentyfive
10 months ago
When I saw bump I thought my cf was preggers......
skibum609
10 months ago
I used to have battles with someone I consider a toxic troll. These battles accomplished nothing, other than to raise my blood pressure and waste my time. When I put that person on ignore/mute, life got more pleasant. My advice is to disengage.
mark94
10 months ago
As I said before, i dont feud. I ensure the Truth has its time in the sun. 25IQ and the other libs hate the truth, but that does not change my mission.
gammanu95
10 months ago
^ I’m going to laugh so hard when the OP gets his ass kicked because he ran his mouth to the wrong person. I know you don’t want to see me but it would be fun to run into you, bet you would piss and shit yourself if you knew I knew who you were.
twentyfive
10 months ago
LOL, oooo, the internet tough guy! Enjoying your Friday? What other entertainment shall I plan for your retirement? Living in your head , rent-free
gammanu95
10 months ago
2 bits is at it again! Nothing but a keyboard cowboy. More evidence the troll has no purpose in life but to spam a strip club board up with non sense. That’s what old and futile gets you. Move on old man and join your butt buddy SkiDumb on a game of Kanasta!
Mate27
10 months ago
^ ROFLMAO Another wanna be troll Still a stupid fucker
twentyfive
10 months ago
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